kitchen sockets etc.

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Hi,

can I get opinions on the layout in my hasty pic below? My questions are:
(all runs will be checked by part p electrician and building inspector but want to do/learn as much as possible)

1) is the low level of the cable run okay given the presence of a cooker cable outlet plate (I got carried away chasing around at a lower level having started under the window before thinking about the fact that any low level sockets would be obscured by kitchen units but that the run would be accessable behind the cooker - PS run is high enough for part M)

also if you have say a cooker cable going into the outlet box but want the ring cables to run through do you tend to put them under/over/behind/or through the box

2) can I go for the dotted path from the FCU to the hood (the hood being an appliance generating a safe zone)?

3) on a slightly different topic, the switch to the left is to run the under cabinet and plinth lighting, the power (lighting circuit) comes from behind the socket at a depth greater than 50mm but are there any special considerations for power running in walls to low levels behind kitchen units?

many thanks

Trev

kitchen.gif
 
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It'd probably be better to simply run the cables horizontally from the sockets themselves?

You could argue that with the hood, no one would be drilling there and therefore it'd be okay to stick the cable there, but that still wouldn't be in line with the regulations - you could use some capping for where it went out of the zones?



For your dishwasher and washing machines sockets, it'd be better for them to use a switched connection unit above the worktop area connected to a unswitched socket behind the appliance.
 
ryanjuk87 said:
you could use some capping for where it went out of the zones?



No you can't.

Capping is not sufficient protection for a cable running out of zone.

If you use the cooker hood FCU to feed a socket behind / adjacent to the hood then this cable remains in zone.
 
thanks for the replies!

ryanjuk87 said:
For your dishwasher and washing machines sockets, it'd be better for them to use a switched connection unit above the worktop area connected to a unswitched socket behind the appliance.

unfortunately the window sill for the window shown on the right is the same height as the worktop and almost full wall width, and I'd rather not have any worktop mounted switches etc.. is there a problem with switched sockets behind appliances?

ryanjuk87 said:
It'd probably be better to simply run the cables horizontally from the sockets themselves?

yes :( I realise this would be ideal - unfortunately I have already chased the routes shown (doh) so ideally would not change it (tho I guess I could fill with plaster before it's hardwalled) that's why I wanted to know if it was against regs assuming the cooker outlet plate is where indicated.. initially I thought the low level socket covered it but then realised it would be hidden..

RF Lighting said:
If you use the cooker hood0 FCU to feed a socket behind / adjacent to the hood then this cable remains in zone.

so I can run the hood cable as indicated by the dotted line as long as I terminate it with a cable outlet plate/unswitched socket? behind the hood - haven't got the hood yet so I am unsure of fixing details...

am assuming there is nothing wrong with the under cabinet/plinth lighting as shown?

just to check, as mentioned, is it okay to run a cable that you don't want to break in a socket above or below the box? presumeably it is as it never leaves the safe zone..?

thanks for all the help

Trev
 
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sorry, realised the last bit of that question didn't make much sense, the below is attempt 2 but still doesn't read well so did a pic:

is it okay to run a cable (e.g. cooker cable) above or below the box of a socket that 'defines the safe zone' presumeably it is as it never leaves the safe zone..?
i.e.
kitchen2.gif


or is it not okay because i) it cuts the corner, or ii) the wire is not connected to that "point accessory or switchgear" and hence it is not a safe zone for that wire?

A zone running either horizontally or vertically to a point, accessory or switchgear on the wall or partition, containing a cable connected to the point accessory or switchgear.

seems to imply that the presence of the safe zone relies on the presence of "a" cable connected to the point in question but I don't read it as being a safe zone "only for" cables connected to the point.. or am I wrong?
Even if it is the former then is there no safe zone under the socket as there is no cable below it connected to it? (just talked myself round in a circle I think)
 
Nice clear drawings.

Where is the cooker switch going? You need to have that in a readily accessible area so that should there be a cooker fire or service issue it can easily be isolated.

I'm concerned that you have 3 x double sockets at low level and behind items (1- behind unit, 1- behind dishwasher, 2-behind washing machine).

Why not provide fuse flex outlets against the primary wall and have a conduit route between flex outlet back box and sub counter level. Then it's a simple matter of providing longer flex leads between the outlet and the 2 devices.

The ethos for providing electrical outlets above the counter is for ease of isolation and for ease of mtce / service work. The way you have things set up the devices need to be pulled out to access the rear, not a good idea if there's a fire or a fuse gone pop.

Also, consider a flood situation and the water feed service to these units. As you know water and electricity are not good with each other, reconsider your plans and create something that is an asset rather than a PITA problem.
 
is it okay to run a cable (e.g. cooker cable) above or below the box of a socket that 'defines the safe zone' presumeably it is as it never leaves the safe zone..?
i.e.
kitchen2.gif


No you cant do that the width of the accessory is the limit to the safe zone however you can have a cable passing through the box of an accessory without it connecting to the accessory.
 
Hi,

thanks for all the advice, below is my latest 'attempt'..
I have moved the height of the ring cable to that of the sockets along the cooker wall. Indicated the cooker point position. Shown the right hand wall properly (is actually no washing machine just dishwasher), Finalized the cooker hood power and indicated the boiler position.

I still have a few questions if that's okay?:
1) Ideally I would do as suggested and have an fcu with flex outlet for the dishwasher but there really is almost no room for an fcu to the side of the window. I realise this is not ideal but given it is only actually one unit is it 'acceptable'? I believe There has to be a socket on that line anyway as it defines the safe zone (floor and top of wall/ceiling are not options due to windows/steels/roof construction)

2)I'm going to have to pass the ring cables through the cooker box unless I channel deep enough that they can go behind.. it seems odd to me to pass cables from different circuits through the same box...

3)Is there a minimum allowed distance between sockets etc and a gas cooker? I would have thought common sense dictated a certain distance but this could be fairly small (100mm?)

many thanks for your patience. :)

Trevw

kitchen3.gif
 
You can use metal capping for cables outside the zones long as ...

i) The metal capping is earthed ,where if you screw or nail through the capping (making sound electrical contact with the earthed metal capping) and touch the phase conductor,a direct path is provided for earth current to flow causing automatic disconnection of the circuit concerned.
 
The fcu does not have to be directly above the appliance, just somewhere near by.

Could it go where I have put the red squares?


The ring cable would be far far better chopped deep enought to go behing the box for the CCU

There is no actual reg for the distance from a hob, but convention is 300mm


kitchen4.gif
 
festa said:
You can use metal capping for cables outside the zones long as ...

i) The metal capping is earthed ,where if you screw or nail through the capping (making sound electrical contact with the earthed metal capping) and touch the phase conductor,a direct path is provided for earth current to flow causing automatic disconnection of the circuit concerned.

No you cant.


Steel capping is not sufficient protection for cables outside of the safe zones, as it does not fully enclose the cable. It only coveres one side of it.

Earthed steel conduit, SWA or MICC are acceptable.
 
RF ...

`IF` the wall in question is 100mm thick OR less then you are 100% right
as thats the only instance a safe zone extends to the reverse of said wall.

`IF` the wall in question is over 100mm thick then zones on the reverse do not apply and `earthed metal capping` affords protection REG 543-02-05.
 
festa said:
`IF` the wall in question is over 100mm thick then zones on the reverse do not apply and `earthed metal capping` affords protection REG 543-02-05.
You use capping as a protective conductor?
 
Did i get my REG wrong Spark?...doh
Tis a good job this question aint from an assessor. :oops:
 
I think you need to look in section 5 under external influences, impact.
Capping is only really provided for protection against a plasterers trowel.
 

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