Illuminated Mirror and Separate Shaver Socket Installation.

[jameshobiecat]

Hi, I am replacing the disgusting 2 in 1 shaver socket/light fitting the developers fitted in my newly built home (built April 2011) with a heated/illuminated mirror and separate shaver socket. Obviously, since this goes beyond a like for like swap and will introduce new cabling in a bathroom, I will have to get an electrician in to connect things up but if I can I’d like to run any additional cables required myself to keep costs down.

Anyway I have the following questions:

1) The Existing shaver socket/light fitting is feed by a spur from the lighting circuit, is it OK to feed both the mirror (250W max) and shaver socket off this one spur or do I need to feed a second cable down from the lighting circuit in the loft above? I’d like to avoid running the extra cable if possible because it will mean making lots of holes in the wall and then plastering over it.

2) Assuming I can use just the one cable to feed both mirror and shaver socket, I intend to fit a junction box in the stud wall behind the mirror and use this to split the output. The shaver socket will be mounted immediately to the side of the mirror thus I will have a short horizontal run of cable. I know that horizontal runs are a big no-no when plastered into a wall but wondered if a short run between two adjacent items in a stud wall was ok? After all cables are generally free to meander around in a stud wall anyway. If the answer is no then I guess I will have to run a new cable down from the loft anyway.

3) Are all shaver sockets IP44 rated and therefore ok for zone 2? The information on the usual DIY shed’s websites is pretty poor.

4) Does a shaver socket need its own isolation switch? I can’t say I have ever seen an isolator for a shaver socket but times change.

Many Thanks, James

 

[sparkiemike]

... I will have to get an electrician in to connect things up but if I can I’d like to run any additional cables required myself to keep costs down...

You can't really do that. You will need to speak to the electrician before you start to see if he is prepared to take on responsibility for your work - chances are that he won't, and you would have to let him make the decisions on how best to comply with the wiring regs and building regs, OR you need to notify the building control dept before you start and pay their fees.

 

[vibrobullit407]

Have you already bought your illuminated mirror and if not you can get them with a shaver socket built in. JCC do a good range and are available on ebay at decent prices (can't see any as of now though)! This would mean no joint to feed an additional shaver socket and the mirrors tend to be IP44 or above!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_n...+mirror&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1311

 

[jameshobiecat]

... I will have to get an electrician in to connect things up but if I can I’d like to run any additional cables required myself to keep costs down...

You can't really do that. You will need to speak to the electrician before you start to see if he is prepared to take on responsibility for your work - chances are that he won't, and you would have to let him make the decisions on how best to comply with the wiring regs and building regs, OR you need to notify the building control dept before you start and pay their fees.

I'm pretty sure that I'm allowed to do the first fix myself, afterall its just drilling holes in studs and passing cables through. Where i'd like help is ensuring I run cables in places that he is happy with.

vibrobullit407, we looked everywhere for a nice mirror with an intigrated shaver socket but couldn't find one we liked. The GF is an interior designer so had stacks of books but none measured up. Mirror has now been purchased.

 

[plugwash]

1) The Existing shaver socket/light fitting is feed by a spur from the lighting circuit, is it OK to feed both the mirror (250W max) and shaver socket off this one spur or do I need to feed a second cable down from the lighting circuit in the loft above? I’d like to avoid running the extra cable if possible because it will mean making lots of holes in the wall and then plastering over it. [/qoute]
Running them off one cable is fine, however you must consider the total load on the lighting circuit.

2) Assuming I can use just the one cable to feed both mirror and shaver socket, I intend to fit a junction box in the stud wall behind the mirror

Be aware that junction boxes must be accessible for inspection. Are the cables really so short that they won't reach directly to one of the accessories?

The shaver socket will be mounted immediately to the side of the mirror thus I will have a short horizontal run of cable. I know that horizontal runs are a big no-no when plastered into a wall

Dunno where you heard that but it's BS, horizontal runs from an accessory are fine.

Are all shaver sockets IP44 rated and therefore ok for zone 2?

I don't think i've ever seen a shaver socket that would pass IP44. IIRC there are special rules for transformer isolated shaver sockets though (dunno exactly what they are off the top of my head)

Does a shaver socket need its own isolation switch?

Not that i'm aware of.


Finally your electrician will have to sign his name to the work. As such it will have to comply with his interpretation of the regs (the regs are a bit vauge in places and some electrians seem to think that regs exist that don't ). As such you really need to talk to the electrician you plan to use before you start the work. I've heard os some electricians who don't like anything but lights being on a lighting circuit.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

... I will have to get an electrician in to connect things up but if I can I’d like to run any additional cables required myself to keep costs down...

Are you aware of the prescribed safe zones for cables(not the same as bathroom safe zones), cable ratings, requirements for hidden/inaccessible joints and RCD protection.

 

[sparkiemike]

I'm pretty sure that I'm allowed to do the first fix myself, afterall its just drilling holes in studs and passing cables through. Where i'd like help is ensuring I run cables in places that he is happy with.

I am 100% sure you need to comply with PART P of the building regs, an that covers more than just the cables or terminations.

Sure you can do 1st fix yourself, however you need to make sure your electrician is prepared sign off your 1st fix work (I would not) or you need notify building control before you start and pay the fee.

I would draw your attention to the approved document for PART P and to paragraph 1.28 http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I am 100% sure you need to comply with PART P of the building regs, an that covers more than just the cables or terminations.

Absolutely!
Whether it is notifiable work or not, all work must comply to building regulations, not just part p!

 

[sparkiemike]

Have you already bought your illuminated mirror and if not you can get them with a shaver socket built in. JCC do a good range and are available on ebay at decent prices (can't see any as of now though)! This would mean no joint to feed an additional shaver socket and the mirrors tend to be IP44 or above!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_n..._osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1311[/QUOTE]

Make sure it complies with British Regs, a client of mine purchased a mirror with socket outlet from bathrooms.com, the socket outlet was NOT connected to an isolating transformer! The respose from the supplier was that nobody else had complianed and it had a CE mark.

 

[jameshobiecat]

Plugwash, thanks for the constructive post.

Total load on circuit is fine, I only have a small house and is has two lighting circuits so only 5 points including mirror (approx 750 watts worst case).

Junction box would be accessible if mirror removed but have decided to mount mirror landscape not portrait as originally intended. as a result cable is now long enough to reach mirror so can make connection there.

Thanks for info on horizontal safe zones, I had not realised they existed.

In reply to questions asked by others;

As stated in op house was built 2011 therefore all circuits are rcd protected and have stickers in consumer unit stating such.

Yes of course installation must be part p (and all other building regs) compliant, thats why I'm on here making sure I get it right.

Surely if I have just run a cable through the wall in the right place no reasonable sparky would insist on pulling it out and feeding it back through himself. The whole point of me being on here is to establish where the correct cable runs are to avoid problems.

Someone mentioned cable load, I understand that 1.5mm t and e is good for 18 amps, mirror and shaver are hardly going to trouble that.

 

[flameport]

Surely if I have just run a cable through the wall in the right place no reasonable sparky would insist on pulling it out and feeding it back through himself.

They wouldn't insist on anything - they will arrive, discover you have done some of the work yourself which should have been notified, and then leave.
If you are lucky they won't charge you for wasting their time.

Either
a. you get an electrician to do the job and the notification
or
b. you notify building control, pay the fee and do the work yourself.
There are no other legal options.

Even if you found someone willing to overlook the law, the fact is that installing a short piece of cable in a stud wall will save you absolutely nothing. It might save the electrician a few minutes of their time, but that won't result in a lower price.

 

[Lectrician]

You say it is stud work?

So why can't you use the existing feed for the mirror and then a new feed dropped inside the stud wall down to the new shaver socket? No holes in the wall required, assuming the shaver socket goes above the noggins (typically at 1.2m from floor).

 

[jameshobiecat]

Lectrician; having pinpointed where the studs and noggins are I think that is the way to go.

Flameport; your probably right that it won't save anything to run the cable myself and I probably will get the sparky to do it. However, I do think your a little overzealous in your application of part p.

 

[securespark]

It's not his application of Part P....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Make sure it complies with British Regs, a client of mine purchased a mirror with socket outlet from bathrooms.com, the socket outlet was NOT connected to an isolating transformer!

Doesn't need to be if it's not going into a special location.

You can get basic shaver sockets without transformers too, all properly CE marked.

Lack of a transformer is not a failing on the part of the maker, nor does it mean that any CE marks are bogus.