12V lighting-- Coverage hints please!!

[eranu70]

We have a 7metre by 3 metre kitchen that is about to be done up and are going to put low voltage downlights in.

Above the kitchen is a loft, with insulation and we have a few concerns.

1) How many lights to use, say 50W, and what pattern? From investigating on the net we need about 20 (approx 1 metre apart in 3 rows). It is a large kitchen, but 20 seems a lot (2 rows of 7, 1 of 6). Will this look ok or has anyone done something similar with less. I'd rather use less to save power if I can get away with decent light.

2) We have a load of lights (not fireproof ones) with a transformer for each and those blue click connectors. I have read a couple of places that you can use ceramic plant pots over the lights in the loft and can cover these with insulation. Is this correct? Would the transformer also need to be under the pot (would be a big plant pot!!).

The work will be getting signed off and inspected by an authorised mate of mine. But he's not really experienced

 

[ccam108]

To be honest (and I'll say this nicely) ditch the idea of ELV downlights. They are beyond useless at lighting a room.

You should look into something like these: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...lights_Index/Commercial_Downlights/index.html

I've recently installed about 10 of these in my church and they are fantastic.

A fully frosted cover will give a clean look and reduce the "industrial-ness" of them.

Google for PL downlights/fluorescent downlights/commercial downlights. Single 18W/26W fittings would be less obtrusive than twin fittings.

Hope that helps!

Colin C[/url]

 

[Taylortwocities]

You are crazy. 1000watts to light a kitchen?
What's the matter with you - have you no idea how much coal/oil it will take to poorly light your kitchen using torchlights?
How much do you pay per KWh? Go work out you annual costs.

Once you have installed them you will then find that you'll need extra lights over the sink and under the cupboards to properly light the work areas.

Two 58 watt fluorescent tubes will give you all the light you need. That's a tenth of the energy that you are contemplating.


PS 230volts is LOW voltage

 

[eranu70]

Errr thanks for the enthusiastic reply TTC and apologies for the low voltage typo.

Not actually my kitchen in truth. In fact I haven't seen it yet (wont til next week). Just know what is wanted (downlights), the size (which is large) and that there is insulated loft above.

We have some 12v 50w downlights we are thinking about, but I don't know nearly enough to tell if they would be suitable, as in the amount we'd need would appear too many. I had realised 1000 watts is high for one room so was hoping I could get away with less. I get the feeling the lights I have aren't really good enough.

 

[sparkwright]

Whose kitchen is it then?

Family?

Friend?

Customer?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I get the feeling the lights I have aren't really good enough.

They are very good indeed for highlighting particular items or features, or spot lighting small areas. That's what they are actually designed to do, and why they are often called "spotlights".

They are utterly useless at lighting up rooms because they are actually designed to not do that.

Not actually my kitchen in truth. In fact I haven't seen it yet.

We have a 7metre by 3 metre kitchen that is about to be done up and are going to put low voltage downlights in.

 

[eranu70]

Friends kitchen. Heaven knows what I was thinking of when I said 'we have...' (don't see the relevance either? questions are still the same).

I'm only trying to find out what would be the best option for them as they want downlights fitting.

I've seen in my QVS cataologue some R.64 and R.80 downlights, mains voltage that use display 'spots' as bulbs. Would these be suitable? The name 'spot' may mean not. But looks like we could use less of these if they give out decent light. Say 9 x 40W lights = 360 W. Much better than 1kW

 

[ericmark]

I have lit a kitchen using 24v lighting we did not use 12v as cables need to be twice the size and also we had the units from a scrap bus. It was a very large room and just two 40W fittings were ample. We used 2 foot tubes as carrying the 4 foot tubes there was a likely hood they would break. Found we could remove the original ballast units from 240v fittings and the inverters from the bus would fit in the same space. Used 44/0.012 singles to wire to reduce volt drop.

However why one would want to use extra low voltage lights in UK I do not know. This was in the Falklands and a bank of Ni/Ir Batteries allowed the generator to only be run to vacuum floors and cool freezer.

I know that in theory the quartz halogen tungsten lamps run more efficient on extra low voltage. However in practice because the inverters as so short lived any gains are lost with the higher maintenance costs. Only where the local voltage is unstable would I use extra low voltage. The 50mm spot lamp is great wall mounted in the bed room as a reading lamp. And where a spot is required and one can't mount the light close as with for example a dart board they work very well. But they are not suitable for lighting a room. I have used them in bathrooms but it was more to heat the bathroom than light it. And with a kitchen anything we can do to reduce the heat has to be a bonus. Fridge, Freezer, Washing machine, Tumble dryer and well of course the cooker all pump heat into the kitchen and although we may want it in winter during the summer its a pain and far easier not to put heat into the room than remove it once there.

I have noticed how much cooler my kitchen is now I have an induction hob. Heat goes into food rather than into kitchen. Why anyone would want hot lamps in a kitchen I do not know?

If I was to use 12v or 24v lighting and had to buy the units I would look at the 2D units. They are made in 12 and 24 volt versions and use standard lamps fit close to ceiling and give off plenty of light. The caravan type using twin 8W or 20W tubes also work well. Main thing is use heavy cables as you only have to check in a caravan running off the car battery to see the results of volt drop.

The normal 12v 50mm spots will not work in a caravan as they need a regulated supply. You can get versions for a caravan but the bulbs are more expensive and can take the voltage variation.

You haven't said why you want 12v lighting? I assume it is a farm in a remote spot? I know with the boat we used the inverter to supply our head lamp. A 70W metal halide lamp was far better than a car head lamp to see the cut at night or though tunnels. And I would consider today with the price of inverters 230 volt lighting may be an option but check inverter as some do not like florescent lamps.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm only trying to find out what would be the best option for them as they want downlights fitting.

Their best option would be to reset their assumptions and abandon the lunacy of trying to light up their room spaces by burying torches in the ceilings.

I've seen in my QVS cataologue some R.64 and R.80 downlights, mains voltage that use display 'spots' as bulbs. Would these be suitable? The name 'spot' may mean not. But looks like we could use less of these if they give out decent light. Say 9 x 40W lights = 360 W. Much better than 1kW

And still much worse than, say, 100-150W of PL downlights, or 50-60W of surface mounted lighting.

 

[eranu70]

I'm only trying to find out what would be the best option for them as they want downlights fitting.

Their best option would be to reset their assumptions and abandon the lunacy of trying to light up their room spaces by burying torches in the ceilings.

I've seen in my QVS cataologue some R.64 and R.80 downlights, mains voltage that use display 'spots' as bulbs. Would these be suitable? The name 'spot' may mean not. But looks like we could use less of these if they give out decent light. Say 9 x 40W lights = 360 W. Much better than 1kW

And still much worse than, say, 100-150W of PL downlights, or 50-60W of surface mounted lighting.

Ok. Ta for answers, think I'll have them re-think.

 

[eranu70]

And still much worse than, say, 100-150W of PL downlights, or 50-60W of surface mounted lighting.

I'll tell them that PL downlights are the way forward.

They will be going into insulation, what sort of protection is required? I presume they don't generate much heat, being flourescent. But are fire hoods or something along those lines still needed?