14th edition - easier just to rewire?

[NewOrder]

I am planning what work needs to be done when the electrician comes in to the inspection and upgrades. We have an old 8 way Wylex consumer unit with wired fuses, as the electrics would need to ideally last another 20-30 years I think this needs to be replaced.

The earth bonding is very very poor and this needs upgrading.

The main issue is a severe lack of sockets and there is only one ring main. Ideally this may need to be split and around 10 sockets need to be installed in different places.

Also all the main cables are buried behind door frames and plaster and this resulted in the main income fuse being blown when it one off these wires was accidently drilled through. The electricity board did come out and replace the fuse free of charge, which was good of them.

When this happened the main fuse blew but none of the fuses on the consumer blew and a relative that used to be a spark many years ago suggested there was something wrong, as the fuse on the circuit which affected should have blown rather than the main one.

The lighting circuit seems fine and is earthed. Just two issues here the wires again are just under the plaster and the bathroom light low voltage down lights are not of the correct IP rating so will need to be changed.

So given this information and the fact a lot of work needs to be done on the ring main to avoid the spaghetti junction of extension leads we have no, would it be best long term just to rewire the entire lot but keep the lighting circuit or would the fact we will have RCDs mean the wiring under the plaster is no longer a problem?

Sorry for the poor spelling/missed out letters I am typing on my laptop running Linux and I haven't got the correct drivers for the trackpad, which results in the cursor jumping all over the place deleting the odd letter or word.

 

[ericmark]

Can't remember date but think around 1964 the wiring to lights changed and we started running an earth to lights so as to if lights would need rewiring would depend on if there is an earth or not.

Mid 1980 there was another major change and it was decided that normal people should not need to re-wire fuses as mistakes were being made in the size of fuse wire used. So in domestic we moved over to cartridge fuse or MCB. We also found a major problem with the ELCB-v where a secondary earth could prevent it tripping and also the problem with water pipes in the street being replaced with plastic.

In the 1990's we started to fit RCD's to non TT supplied houses for bathrooms and outside.

In 2001 a new 16th Edition came out and we were told it was really the 17th and from that point we started to call it BS7671:2001 to differentiate it from BS7671:1992 Amendment 3 and much changed including removing some items and putting them into the on site guide instead.

Then in 2008 we got the 17th Edition (BS7671:2008) we now have amendment 1 but it does not have major changes for house holders in the amendment.

As well as some things becoming more strict we also have some items will less protection required and the problem is most people only have the current edition and although one does not have to up-grade it is hard to find out what was allowed to comply with older editions. At one point metal window frames needed to be earthed.

There is also the wiring colour change.

Looking at part re-wires is not really something which can be advised on with a forum as it is so easy to miss something. The way forward would be to have an electrical condition report but clearly if you know it needs a re-wire then getting the report is a waist of money.

I am sure in 20-30 years to come there will be many changes. Since the reports are to be done every 10 years on domestic I would say one can only rely on 10 years before something will need upgrading.

I spent a lot of time and money fitting telephone lines throughout my house which are now in the main unused because of cordless phones. The same is true to some extent with wireless LAN connections.

The use of transformers built into plugs and cordless devices has resulted in many items needing to be left plugged in 24/7 but this could all change. Already there are moves to standardise the extra low voltage and 5 volt and 12 volt are becoming standard so we may see single charging units which can charge many devices in the future so socket requirement could drop.

So I would say it's impossible to plan 20-30 years so look at the house and ask does it need re-wiring now. Forget trying to make it right for distance future.

 

[NewOrder]

We are getting a report done, and I assume the electrician mah make the decision based on the work we know we need that a report would be a waste of money.

The existing wiring is 32 years old and was done in two days (it is a 3 bed house) but as I say the main issue is a lack of sockets. The cables themselves are fine but surely it must be a bit of a nightmare to ask a spark to fit 10 extra sockets on such an old install?

The lighting is earthed.

 

[streetlighter]

If all the wiring is PVC and the circuits test out fine then it may not need a retire. Maybe just an extra circuit for the new sockets a new consumer unit and upgrades to the earthing and bonding.

When getting the consumer unit replaced I would recommend using RCBOs on each circuit they cost about £30 each so not as cheap as fitting a dual RCD unit but in the event of a fault only one circuit would be affected.

 

[NewOrder]

It is all copper with PVC insulation. Never thought about just adding a new circuit, I was thinking it would be a lot of hassle for the electrician to modify the existing ring main but I suppose if it all checks out ok it could be left alone and a new circuit made.

No idea if the tests will flag anything up, I have done basic checks myself (such as making sure terminals are secure) but I have no idea if there is any faults on it.

And yep good idea about the RCDs.

 

[streetlighter]

The electrician will use a variety of test instruments to check the insulation resistance of the cables, the continuity of the ring final circuit, continuity of cpcs ( earth wires ) and live tests of polarity and earth fault loop impedance.

A report will be issued with all the findings any issues that don't meet the current regulations will be given a code C3

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is enough new work needed to make a PIR a complete waste of money.

The electrician can check out any cables which could be reused if OK at the time he's doing all the rest of the work.

 

[RF Lighting]

I'd agree that a formal EICR is probably a waste of money at the moment.

I think form the sounds of it you'd be best off having the sockets rewired.

It ends up being not much more work to rewire than it does to try and track and extend and split the existing circuit, and at the end of the job you know everything is right and going to be trouble free for many years.

The lighting may not need rewiring, but without seeing it I can't say. Get your electrician to inspect this and the other circuits. It may be fine, or it may need some repairs / upgrades

 

[NewOrder]

Thanks all makes sense. I know there are things like junction boxes etc which are hidden which are not ideal.

The downside to a complete ring main rewire is the mess.

I guess we need to get three quotes and see what the sparks think.

 

[JohnW2]

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[SUNRAY]

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Ah this'll be the one then...

 

[JohnW2]

Ah this'll be the one then...

Yep, checking to see if the "old message warning" would appear, but it didn't.

I'm pretty sure that the warning used to appear if one pressed the "quote" button - but when that didn't happen, I thought it was possible that it might happen when I pressed 'send' - which again it's didn't, but by then it was too late for me to 'make my test message go away'

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Yep, checking to see if the "old message warning" would appear, but it didn't.

I'm pretty sure that the warning used to appear if one pressed the "quote" button - but when that didn't happen, I thought it was possible that it might happen when I pressed 'send' - which again it's didn't, but by then it was too late for me to 'make my test message go away'

Kind Regards, John

I saw the thread then this one and ...

I'm convinced I've replied to 'current threads' in the past, only to find they are old but I've never known where I've gone wrong.

 

[JohnW2]

I'm convinced I've replied to 'current threads' in the past, only to find they are old but I've never known where I've gone wrong.

So have I, "in the past". However, we went through a period (seemingly no longer persisting) when it was essentially impossible to that 'without realising', because of the 'big red warning' which popped up if one attempted to reply to an old message. At the least, I feel sure we need that functionality back.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

So have I, "in the past". However, we went through a period (seemingly no longer persisting) when it was essentially impossible to that 'without realising', because of the 'big red warning' which popped up if one attempted to reply to an old message. At the least, I feel sure we need that functionality back.

Kind Regards, John

Yes I agree But I'm still convinced I managed to do it when the big red box system was in place but didn't see it.