15mm or 22mm pipe for gas suppy

[tall_tone]

Hi all
We are in the process of getting central heating installed by Warmfront as my wife is disabled. They have said that they need to replace the current 15mm gas pipe that supplies the instant gas water heater and cooker at the back of the house with a new 22mm supply. The difficulty is running a new pipe from the front of the house to the back via lifting all the floor boards on the first floor. Is this really necessary or is this just a contractor creating work to get to the £2700 government grant amount.

Replace pipe front to back, new combi boiler and 5 radiators
Strangely their quote has come in at almost exactly £2700.

Any thoughts welcome

T

 

[mogget]

The gas supply will need to be at least 22mm, possibly more, given that the combi and gas meter are at opposite ends of the house.

I am not a gas engineer, and hopefully one of the RGI's here will be able to give a more detailed answer.

 

[Ryanmac]

It depends on a few factors really. As a minimum the gas pipe will need to be run in 22mm (some cases it may need to be 28mm) to within 3 metres of the boiler. This is to enable the correct boiler inlet pressure of at least 20mbar.

Ryan

 

[Agile]

As an absolute minimum the supply will have to be run in AT LEAST 22mm ALL THE WAY to the boiler!

Tony

 

[bengasman]

... As a minimum the gas pipe will need to be run in 22mm (some cases it may need to be 28mm) to within 3 metres of the boiler. This is to enable the correct boiler inlet pressure of at least 20mbar.

Ryan

A 3 metre length of 15 mm will NEVER give you 20 mbar on a combi.
I would suggest that if you are not a RGI, you refrain from giving advice on gaswork.

Though I consider warmfront a complete scam, the bit about replacing the 15 mm is actually correct.

Be aware that warmfront have generated literally thousands of official complaints and when you bear in mind that virtually all their work is done for vulnerable people who are unlikely to kick up a fuss, it seems reasonable to assume there are tens of thousands of places where they have done a substandard job.
They are known to often deliver very poor quality work, poor quality boilers and very poor value for money.

If the work is done to the general level of poor quality, you can expect heavy repair bills to start shortly after the warrantee expires.

If you any way of paying for the boiler yourself, or keep the existing boiler, I would suggest you do it.

The quotes are usually around the £2700 mark as that is what the taxpayer forks out without asking too many questions, and the bit that goes over it is charged as own contribution.

I recently heard of a pensioner who was asked for something like 3000 pounds on top of the grant, for a job that was worth about half of he quote.

 

[Ryanmac]

Some boilers have 15mm gas connection to the boiler and those manufactures instructions will state that the run will need to be of SUFFICIENT size for the boiler.

The 15mm gas connection should not run more than 3 metres from the boiler. (i personally ignore that part and reduce the 22mm to 15mm just before the gas connection to the boiler.) the main part up to the boiler should be no less than 22mm . Like my initial comment stated "the gas run should be a minimum of 22mm in some instances 28mm.

I am a registered installer.
Sorry if i didn't make myself very clear. (although i have just repeated what i originally said.)

 

[bengasman]

Just spotted a boo boo in my statement.
IF the boiler is 4 metres from the meter, AND set on the high side, AND it is a very small combi, you could get 20 mbar.

 

[swbjackson]

There are problems with installs on the warmfront scheme but there are also a lot of very good installs by conscientious installers. With 100,000 installs a year there are bound to be some problems.

I've gone back on other installers work and put right faults but overall I see less problems with the warmfront installs than I used to see on private jobs before I joined Iguana.

Unfortunately the likes of watchdog and the one show are only interested in the ones where mistakes have been made. Showing a customer delighted with their new boiler or heating system doesn't make good TV. You also don't get the full story. The job recently featured on the one show wasn't as bad as it appeared on the TV.

I was there for a day rectifying the faults but a lot of time was spent chatting to the customer and drinking tea.

 

[bengasman]

Recently on LBC: over 5000 official complaints. That is more than a few.
A lot of the people who get this stuff are elderly, or disabled; you could kick them in the gob, and they still would not file an official complaint.

I personally know a woman with a special needs child who sat in the cold for over a year, waiting for them to sort the problems out.

Yes, lots of bad cowboy work, but you can expect that for 900 quid supply and fit of boiler.
For a £2700 grant PLUS own contribution I would expect a bit better.

 

[mickyg]

swb- I know you do this work, and I don't doubt you do a fine job, and I'm sure some of your colleagues are also very good. However the majority of the work that I've seen, and many others I know is incredibly poor. I've also had an iguana employee done a couple of privates on the cheap on my patch, one illegally on LPG and the other was just a mess. I appreciate you don't want to be tarred with the same brush as all these numpties, but you can't say there isn't a problem, cos clearly there is.

 

[corgiman]

I just dont get why all that luvverly government money goes to ONE installer!!

aint that a bit of a conflict of interest?

surely opening it up would produce the best value for money for the general public?

 

[tall_tone]

Thanks for all the speedy responses.

The question about 15mm v 22mm is well and truly sorted.

I have heard the problems with Warmfront which was why I asked if I was being taken for a ride. My choice is stick with the single wall mounted gas heater for a 3 bed semi or use the grant money to have warmfront install a central heating system. No choice really!

Thanks for the assistance.
T

 

[swbjackson]

I just dont get why all that luvverly government money goes to ONE installer!!

aint that a bit of a conflict of interest?

surely opening it up would produce the best value for money for the general public?

It doesn't. Iguana, now eagaheat, get 30%of the work. There are 81 firms doing the work across the country. In my area Quake and Kershaws cover most of the other 70%.

Eagaheat have strict policies regarding private works and anyone caught doing them is likely to be subject to dismissal. I won't touch gas outside of freebies for family members as my registration is through eagaheat and I've no liability insurance.

If I come across poor workmanship I actively encourage the customers to complain. There a lot of very good installers on the firm being let down by a minority and they need to go.

Mike

 

[bengasman]

There a lot of very good installers on the firm being let down by a minority and they need to go.

Mike

That sounds good.
Does "on the firm" mean that your company does not use subbies, but offers secure employment with sickleavce and health and pension benefits to all that work there?

Can you confirm that things like cheap boilers being installed by guys who get a few hundred quid for the job, leaving a thousand pound or so profit out of taxpayers' money for the company, never happen/happened with iguana/eagaheat?

 

[Agile]

Eagaheat have strict policies regarding private works and anyone caught doing them is likely to be subject to dismissal. I won't touch gas outside of freebies for family members as my registration is through eagaheat and I've no liability insurance.

Mike

There may be strict policies but they are clearly just not enforced. There is no fear anoingst the employees about getting found out!

I went to one where he had used his Iguana van and used the Iguana CORGI number on the benchmark certificate!

Its a pity that he did not fit a seal on the inner of the flue and the boiler did not work, he had no ideas what was wrong, hence my attendance!

I spoke about it general terms to what seemed like the big Iguana boss but he was not asking me for details of his employee!

The Police prossibly have guidelines about not attacking members of the public but that does not stop they hitting them does it. They were only suspended later on after the complaints were filed. The Police spokesmen never even said they were wrong to push or hit anyone.

Tony