17th edition regs, particularly gas and water bonding.

[Plumes]

Hi all

I'm a posting newbie so please excuse me if I say anything odd!

We have just paid to have our house completely rewired but the electricians have done a really poor job.

We are at the beginning of trying to sort out all of the issues but i am uncertain about specific 17th edition regulations so would really appreciate some help...

Firstly they have left earth cables bare and not screwed them to metal backboxes of lightswitches saying the RCD is so quick, the cables don't need earthing. Is this right?
Secondly, they have joined a lighting feed with a piece of terminal block and just left it in the floor, with a bare earth cable again. Is this right? I didn't think you could leave a join in a cable so open to the elements!
Thirdly, they didn't bond the incoming gas and water pipes saying I didn't specifically ask for it. I didn't realise I had to ask - surely this is part of making a new electrical system in a house legal?

(These aren't the only issues, they did generally poor work - used holesaws that were too big for downlights, cut floorboards between joists, not on them, left us without 1 working light on the ground floor, amongst other issues still! - but they're the ones which I suspect don't meet the regs).

Can anyone tell me if bare cables, not terminating earth cables and omitting bonding meets 17th edition regs?

Thanks!

 

[Spark123]

The metal back boxes need to be earthed, the screws are accessible hence are an exposed conductive part. If the front plate is earthed, the screw holes have an earthed ring in them and the back box is flush to the wall then the loop to the back box may be omitted (i.e. with sockets, FCUs, metal light switches but not with plastic light switches).
Earths should be shrouded with green/yellow at their terminations, all joints need to be in some sort of enclosure.
It is a fundamental requirement of BS7671:2008 that protective equipotential bonding (gas/water etc) is in place before any addition or alteration is carried out, failure to do so means that the system is not to BS7671:2008.
What paperwork did they give you regarding compliance with BS7671 (should be an EIC with at least 3 pages)? Are they members of a self certification scheme such as the NICEIC DI, NAPIT etc? Are they listed here:
http://www.competentperson.co.uk/ or on their actual schemes website?
Have you got any paperwork regarding compliance with the building regs?

 

[Plumes]

Thanks for such a quick response. It seems I suspected right.

They're not listed on the link you gave, I found them on the Rated People website and they don't appear to belong to any certification schemes.

I have the DEIC which they filled in and gave to me but nothing regarding building regs. They have listed in the "comments on existing installation" section that there is no bonding for water or gas.

 

[Spark123]

Any logo's on the Domestic EIC?
I fail to see how they can overlook a fundamental requirement yet alone state they have done it! I'm assuming the pipework is copper?

 

[Plumes]

Nope, no logos, which concerned me when he handed it over. The 3 forms do each say they are "based on the model Electrical Installation Certificate shown in Appendix 6 of BS 7671 (as amended)." and that they are "Copyright of The Electrical Safety Council (Jan 2008)."

Yes, the pipework is copper.

 

[flameport]

They have listed in the "comments on existing installation" section that there is no bonding for water or gas.

If this is a total rewire, there shouldn't be anything in that box - there is no existing installation to comment on.

 

[Spark123]

It doesn't sound right to me, it is maybe worth getting an electrician who is a member of a competent person scheme around to check it out. The website above gives names of electricians in your area.

Have you paid them for the work? Any mention of the building regs and how they are going to be complied with? The work which you described above i.e. a full rewire should be notified to your Local Authority Building Control to comply with the law.

 

[sparkwright]

How much did they charge?

Any photos of the consumer unit and other random sockets/switches?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Contact your local building controls office and ask if an application has been made under your address for electrical work.
Do you have the contractors name?
Do you care to reveal it?
I would also contact the rated people website and tell them about your experience with this company.

 

[Plumes]

Thanks all.

We have paid them, it was only after they left we noticed each of the ground floor lightswitches controlled all the rooms......we got in touch straight away and they agreed to come back but then we started to find other issues that are just making us not want them back at all.

They haven't mentioned building control at all so I doubt they've made an application. I won't reveal who they are until they refuse to put anything right.

No pics, will take some tomorrow.

 

[Plumes]

Oops, sorry Sparkwright, they charged £1550 with us supplying all the cables, sockets etc.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Thanks all.

We have paid them, it was only after they left we noticed each of the ground floor lightswitches controlled all the rooms......we got in touch straight away and they agreed to come back but then we started to find other issues that are just making us not want them back at all.

They haven't mentioned building control at all so I doubt they've made an application. I won't reveal who they are until they refuse to put anything right.

No pics, will take some tomorrow.

When they come back ask about scheme providers and building control notification.
You can still call building controls they will tell you if an application has been made and if the tradesmen (use the term lightly) are not with a scheme provider, the work should have been notified prior to them starting it. If they are with a scheme provider, there are complaint procedures that can be taken and they will have a month to notify your work. Did they offer a warranty on their work?

 

[Plumes]

I don't think they are with a scheme provider, I guess we don't have a leg to stand on if that's the case.

I will ask them though. I'll definitely get in touch with Rated People too.

Thanks everyone, off to bed, wish us luck for the meet tomorrow!

 

[Plumes]

(the end of messages keep getting cut off, sorry...) they didn't offer a warranty, no, but they put '10 years' in the 'next inspection' box.

 

[Spark123]

Is the Domestic EIC certificate green?
These: http://niceic.com/Uploads/File2051.pdf are available to non-registered contractors. The electrical safety council produce them but anyone, including yourself, can buy them.