1st floor timbers

[nelliedee]

Hi
We are currently building a 2 story extension and have just finished ground floor and are awaiting the steels to be installed. Our Brickies finished work last week and said to give them a call when steels and 1st floor timbers are in. Problem is that there is no external wall to fix joist hangers onto as the builders have only built up to steel height... We cant just place the new joists on top of the steels !!! we need some wall to fix joists to. Before I call the brickie up can anyone tell me if I Am missing something here?
The walls are being built in solid blockwork.
Nelliedee

 

[noseall]

if, as you say, the brickies have not provided sufficient masonry to site the joist hangers onto, then why don't you ask them?

if the floor level of existing is to carry on into the extension at the same height, then all we do is knock a hole out and locate the joist ends in the existing building.

this hole knock out is best done where you will be having a doorway into the extension, as this is where the floor height is most critical and needs to be accurate.

as for steel height, the brickies could stagger the blockwork down at this point.

we as general builders take care of all these items from foundations and drains to finished plastering, doors, skirts and architraves.

 

[marshman]

if your steels are rsj's then they probably thought you would be cutting your joists into the web

 

[nelliedee]

Yes I am going to ask them but I thought I 'de ask here first as sometimes we get it wrong and ask silly questions..

The plans show the 1st floor timbers directly on top of rsj's. The 1st floor is having to be built 1 meter in from the boundry wall. Ground floor is a wider building.
I have been told by BI that we cannot build round joist ends as we are using blocks, we must use hangers.
Nelliedee

 

[noseall]

as i understand it, you are having an extension that occupies a larger ground floor footprint than the first floor layout.

this is very common, as planners are big fans of the 'hatched back' method of building, so as not to create a terrace housing effect.

the pair of steels are obviously there to carry the two leaves of masonry above the ground floor.

if i understand you correctly, these steels can be built so that they are at the SAME height as the floor timbers, and provided their profile is no deeper than the floor joists, can be hidden within the ceiling space.

we do it all the time, regardless of how the architect draws it. even if the steels are deeper than the floor joists it only means a little bit of the web showing just above floor level. this can usually be dealt with by the skirting or hidden with the d&d.

 

[noseall]

I have been told by BI that we cannot build round joist ends as we are using blocks, we must use hangers.
Nelliedee

joists can be built into or onto an external wall provided they are adequately sleeved or sealed.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=31310&ts=97342

 

[nelliedee]

Thank you for the link.
Our joists are above the steels on the plans, directly above. I have the steels being installed next week. I imagine that is in line with existing floor level of our house. If we install the joists at the same level as the steels, we will then be below existing floor level.
If we carry on. as per plans, we will have to hang the joists off of the new masonary that is to be built on top of new steels. How many courses of masonary (8 " turbo blocks) are sufficient to take the load of the new floor.
I am trying to get the floor in so that the brickies can work off it rather than putting up scaffolding yet.
Thanks for your help
Nelliedee

 

[noseall]

i meant install the steels at the same level as the floor, not the other way round.

in other words, pick the steels up!

 

[nelliedee]

so the masonary will need to go up a level????

 

[noseall]

so the masonary will need to go up a level????

if needs be, yes. this scenario is only possible if the joists run alongside the steel and obviously, not upon it.

 

[nelliedee]

Our 2 steels run the opposite way to the floor joists