2 story shed/garage/office

[i_am_fubar]

I currently have a nice sized, detached brick built garage in the back garden. It was put up as a permitted development and is built a meter from boundy fences (which I believe is not needed as it is made from non-flamible materials).

At the moment, this is pegged to house my workshop and my office is in a spare bedroom. At some point, the bedroom will be needed for a mini-me and I will need to re-locate my office.

The plan is to add another story to the garage (demolish and re-build), but due to it's position, add it as a basement.

Questions:
1) Assuming all building regs are complied with, does it remain a permitted development if the less thant 50% land area rule is met?

2) If it does require planning, would it be easier to get as the new building would look pretty much the same as is what's already there above ground?

3) Are there any specific building regulations with regard to digging a cellar near the property line?

4) Permitted development guidelines seem to give a maximum height above ground level, but never indicate how deep they can be? Is there a limit (assuming single story)?

Cheers,
Fubar.

 

[big-all]

[1]if its less than 2.5m high
call it an air raid shelter

 

[i_am_fubar]

It's a shallow duel pitch roof at the moment, no higher than 2.5m. Will keep the roof height.

 

[big-all]

you need planning i think unless its an air raid shelter

 

[i_am_fubar]

Just done a bit of looking into it and it seems the rules are:
1 - Has to have a floor area of less than 30m^2
2 - Can only be as deep as the distance to the nearest building

Are there any limitations to what is classed as a fall out / air raid shelter? Can it have windows, light pipes, minimum size of doors/walls/ceilings... etc?

I would assume building regs apply due to earth retaining walls?

Also, would that eat into the allowance of other permitted developments if they are directly on top of said shelter?

Fubar.

 

[big-all]

its 50% off the garden area as built or as off 1947
so any extensions shed garages decking since come off that allowance

anything with sleeping accommodation needs planning without fail

 

[i_am_fubar]

Understand on sleeping accommodation. It would be (eventually) for an office only.

So to clarify, if you have 120sqm garden, you can only put PD's with floor space cover no more than 60sqm total between them. This would include having a 30sqm shelter with a 30sqm garage above it, even though it only takes up 30sqm (1/4 of the garden) of actual land?

Seems a bit daft, but also makes sense to stop people just digging holes everywhere.

I imagine a large block and beam ceiling + say 6in of RC could take the weight of machine shop tools (lathe, mill... etc). I would need to do the load calcs, but it's no more than a lot of industrial buildings have.

Fubar.

 

[big-all]

yep unless say the garage was built with the house then it would never be part off the garden area[i think??]

 

[luisdesign]

This would not be permitted development, as a development within the curtilage of a dwelling is not permitted if it will have more than one storey.

You are looking at having a two storey building, allbeit with one storey above ground and one below.

 

[i_am_fubar]

If it was built as a 2 story building, I could understand that. However, as a 'bunker/office/glorified man cave' would inherantly have a VERY strong roof. Could you build that first. Then put another building on top.

Proividing they are not linked by an internal stair case or the likes, could you not claim they are two seperate buildings?

Fubar.

 

[luisdesign]

If it was built as a 2 story building, I could understand that. However, as a 'bunker/office/glorified man cave' would inherantly have a VERY strong roof. Could you build that first. Then put another building on top.

Proividing they are not linked by an internal stair case or the likes, could you not claim they are two seperate buildings?

Fubar.

It wouldn't make a difference,

When trying to do a two storey outhouse, its not considered as building one single storey outhouse and then another single storey outhouse. The rules simply provide a range of restrictions on the end development... so any outhouse that would have two storeys (whether built together or one floor after another) would, at the end of hte development have two storeys, and thus not be permitted development.

You could build one storey under permitted development... and then the second storey under a planning application... but you'd mostly just be increasing your application costs.

 

[luisdesign]

You should be able to find some guidance on the regulations from your local authority website.

I'm going to try to avoid plugging myself (that sounds painful) but you may want ot speak with a professional who can draw up designs and help guide your requirements through planning / PD applications.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Thanks to the bucket loads of advice I got when doing a heavy duty retaining wall, I'm confident I could do the load calcs and design the actual structure plus do the renderings for any PP applications.

Though I don't think I quite expressed myself properly. I don't mean build one floor, and then another on top. I mean create a buiried structure. Then with no physical connection to it (except perhaps dirt), build another building on top.

Imagine a slight parallel of, you're digging in your garden to build a base for a shed. You happen to find a huge slab of concrete 12 inches under your lawn and decide to build a shed on that to save money. If it so happens that that lump of concrete, unbenonst to you, is actually the top of a bunker, have you just broken PD law by creating a 2 story structure?

Fubar.

 

[luisdesign]

Thanks to the bucket loads of advice I got when doing a heavy duty retaining wall, I'm confident I could do the load calcs and design the actual structure plus do the renderings for any PP applications.

Though I don't think I quite expressed myself properly. I don't mean build one floor, and then another on top. I mean create a buiried structure. Then with no physical connection to it (except perhaps dirt), build another building on top.

Imagine a slight parallel of, you're digging in your garden to build a base for a shed. You happen to find a huge slab of concrete 12 inches under your lawn and decide to build a shed on that to save money. If it so happens that that lump of concrete, unbenonst to you, is actually the top of a bunker, have you just broken PD law by creating a 2 story structure?

Fubar.

Yes, you would have just broken PD and (if anyone ever found out) you could be made to pull it down. (what would happen is they'd open an enforcement case on you and then youd be having to make a planning application... if they refused that, and you also lost the appeal then you would likely need ot tear it down... or try your luck in the higher courts)

A building does not need to have any access between floors. But the end result would be a development with more than one storey.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Dang. So unless I can hide it for 5 years or however long it is. I need to get drawings made up, apply for PP. Then ensure building regs are met.

Just out of curiosity. You can get 'two story entrance halls' and the likes where a room is the height of 2 stories, but only has one floor. If you made a shed that was 2.5m high above ground level, but 10m below and was just a big empty void, would that count as a single story, single floor, 5 story or 5 floor development?

Fubar.