2 x 2 Gang/2Way Switches for Hall & Landing

[theboywalker]

I'm looking for some help with wiring switches for my hall & landing light. I've trawled through the other similar posts but cannot find exactly what I'm after.

I currently have a 2 way 2gang switch downstairs which controls the hall light and landing light.

Upstairs I have a 1 gang 2 way switch which only controls the landing light.

I would like to replace the upstairs switch with a 2 way 2 gang so I can turn on the hall light from upstairs. (everyone still with me???)

The circuits are separate i.e. upstairs and downstairs. Having opened up the switches I can follow to an extent what is happening but as with some of the other electrics I have discovered with my recently purchased house, its a bit confusing.

The images as follows show how it's all currently wired. As it wasn't what I was expecting I thought it best to ask for help first (prior to attempting.....or getting a sparky in).

View media item 34094Downstairs switch
-Switch wire for hall light goes red to common, tabbed black to L2.
Commons are joined and the link cable goes from L1 & L2 to upstairs switch.

View media item 34093Upstairs switch (Currently 1 Gang)
Link cable appears to go into L1 & L2 (confusing part now) Switch cable red which is tabbed with yellow tape goes to Common and the black is sat loose in the box????

View media item 34095Upstairs ceiling rose

When opened a loose black cable (as per upstairs switch) was evident.

As mentioned I want to swap the upstairs switch for a 2 gang so I can control both lights.

Any help appreciated, although I thoroughly expect to have to get a sparky out

Cheers

 

[ricicle]

There are not enough cables there to do what you propose - that will require running in an extra cable.
Be aware that you have what looks like an example of a borrowed neutral situation (the landing light is fed from the downstirs circuit with the line but uses the upstairs circuit neutral.) This looks like the case especially if you have two lighting circuits at your consumer unit (fuse box), one for up and one for down.

 

[echoes]

OK - you mention that your upstairs and downstairs lights are on separate circuits, but would I be correct in saying that when you remove the fuse/turn off the MCB for downstairs, the landing light also goes off?

And I suspect a borrowed neutral at the landing ceiling rose.

This method of 2 way lighting is common in older houses, but no longer done

To achieve the 2-way lighting for hall light, run a length of 3-core & earth between the 2 switches. You will need to change the connections in the hall switch thus:

Hall switch:
L1 live - the 2 reds from Common
L2 switched live - the black (sleeved red) from L2

Then run the 3 -core thus:

Hall:
L1 - brown
L2 - black (sleeved brown)
Com - grey (sleeved brown)

landing:
L1 - brown
L2 - black (sleeved brown)
Com - grey (sleeved brown)

Connect all the CPC (earth) wires to the back box terminal and sleeve them all green & yellow

But you should understand exactly what is connected where and how & why it works before diving in and doing anything.

 

[theboywalker]

Thanks Guys,

I thought it would involve running another cable. I'm going to give it a shot today.

Thanks for the heads up on the borrowed neutral, I'm currently educating myself via the various forums and websites. Ties in nicely with the period the house would have been rewired (70's) from what I've been reading.

Thanks again.

 

[sparkydude]

If your going to run new cables, i would suggest you run two new 3 core and earths to enable you to remove the pre-existing borrowed neutral situation. You already have a twin and earth from your landing light to your switch , so no need to get another cable to there from the light, you just need the two new 3 core and earths between the switches to enable two way switching of your landing nad hall light from upstairs and downstairs switch positions.

the way ECHOES has told you is perfectly correct but will only allow you to switch the lights as you already have them and not provide you with the two gang switches at both positions, to do this requires 2x 3core and earths as above.


Nick

 

[sparkwright]

Is the landing light and the hall light fed by the same fuse or circuit breaker? If they ARE then it's not a borrowed neutral.

 

[sparkydude]

The circuits are separate i.e. upstairs and downstairs. Having opened up the switches I can follow to an extent what is happening

read the OP and it states they are 2 sepperate circuits.

Nick