3 Gang Light Switch Query

[ilprincipe86]

Happy new year all!

Can anyone offer any assistance to my query RE: 3 gang light switches. I purchased a property a few weeks ago and ever since I have owned it one of the lights that is linked to a 3 gang switch has been 'temperamental' (defined here as flickering/occasionally not working).

I have just got round to finishing the decorating on the room with the switch and have gone to change the switch plates (for aesthetics only) and have come across the below wiring and wondered if someone could cast their more knowledgable eye over.

In the below picture - looking right to left

- 'Gang 1' - controls a landing light (2 way) and seems to function fine. Red to COM1 - Yellow & Blue (sleeved to L1 & L2)

- 'Gang 2' a downstairs light which again seems to function fine. Red to COM2 - Black sleeved to L1

- 'Gang 3' controls an external light which isnt working correctly. - Looped Wire from COM2 to COM3. Blue (unsleeved) to L1 on Gang 2 and Brown (unsleeved) to L1 on COM3. Blue and Brown go to N & L feeds into the external light.

All of the lights/socket plates have been changed from when I viewed the property and an upstairs light wasnt working when I took ownership but this was visible on inspection that the neutral to the light wasnt secured properly. This leads me to think this is a wiring issue vs. an issue with the light fixture itself.

I have checked around the forums for a similar post and the wiring images on the stickies are out of action at time of writing so if you guys have any thoughts on this please share. I am always reluctant to touch wiring but if you think there is a solution which i am able to implement then your thoughts would be greatly welcome!!

As always thanks in advance.

Untitled

• ilprincipe86
• 2 Jan 2015
• 1

 

[deadshort]

Hi, if the external light wiring is the brown and blue ? The blue wire is neutral and should not be conected to the switch.

Are there any neutral connections at the back box?

Regards,

DS

 

[ilprincipe86]

Thanks DS for the reply.

No there isnt anything else?!

 

[sparkwright]

As said above.

Assuming that brown and blue cable is the only cable AT the outside light, then there is no neutral supplying it.

It looks like a later addition, as new colours.

If this is the case, you need to disconnect the wiring for now, and think of another way of doing it.

Best advice now is, with the power off, have a look at the outside light and check to see if there's any more cables there, which may be a real neutral.

 

[deadshort]

mm, sorry to say i think it's a diy cock up! If you are not confident with electrics, get an electrican in it maybe worth while getting them to give the wiring overall check, just incase you have any dangerous diy attempts lurking!

Sorry -

Regards,

DS

 

[sparkwright]

While your at it, take photographs of the surrounding area, and we may be able to suggest an alternative way of wiring it, if needed - think it will be.

 

[ilprincipe86]

Thanks sparkwright - I think you are right in that it was added after everything else as the cable that looks to be going to the outside light is grey as opposed to the other two which is white.

I'll have a look tomorrow when its light again.

Assuming there is only one cable to the external light, is it a relatively straight forward business to re-wire the light switch so all 3 lights work as expected or would you see as a job that would need someone to come out and re-work the whole thing?

 

[sparkwright]

Assuming there isn't a real neutral at the outside light, it could be awkward getting one.

Somehow you need to get a neutral from the lighting circuit to either the switch or the outside light.

Anything nearby which could easily do this?

Anything the other side of the light switch?

Any floor above that can be easily lifted up?

Alternatively, any sockets nearby? You can't get the neutral from here, but you may be able to obtain a fresh supply, but you may not be able to conceal the wiring easily.

PICTURES!

 

[ericmark]

Gang one I assume far right seems to be OK. Red, Yellow, blue seems right.

Gang two centre one would expect either red, black or brown, blue to have a red and blue mixed seems wrong. I would guess the blue wire should not be there.

Gang three clearly link is bringing line from other switch.

So since you say outside light is grey and rest white I would assume brown, blue is outside lamp.

There are two options if wired like any other lamp in the house the brown and blue would go to Com and L1 but it could also be wired so connecting brown and blue would be a dead short. Can’t see why there would be a brown link wire if following normal wiring so I would guess that blue wire should go to neutral but neutral does not exist at the switch.

If that blue wire goes to any other lamp than likely outside light will cause one of the indoor lights to light dim when used.

It is unfortunate that in the USA they use the switch as a junction box not the ceiling rose like us and internet search often seems to get USA rather than UK so people try and fail to wire after following USA wiring. Does not help they have wrong colours as well. Although rest of Europe may also use switch as junction box fact that instructions not in English you realise it’s not UK.

 

[ilprincipe86]

Hi all,
I wasnt able to get pictures today of the external light as its been shelling it down all day here and didnt fancy exposing any cables in that weather!

But - to confirm having a closer look at the wiring, the grey cable (which has Blue/Brown N/L wires) does go to the external light.

@ sparkwright - to answer your questions....No to all! I'm just not that lucky.
There is a socket on the other wall but would involve alot of channeling of walls if i wanted to keep the existing external light where it is and moving it doesnt seem possible
Even the floorboards above are a non starter - they are all nailed down chipboard so not an easy one on that front either (particularly as ive just had the upstairs fitted with new carpets).

Is there any reconfig of the existing wiring to the switch that I could do here to solve this problem? I could POTENTIALLY run a new cable to the external light from the switch (if that formed part of any solution) as the light is positioned the other side of the wall so I might not have to channel much of the wall away if needs be.

So frustrating! Cheers for all your help though - at least I now know the issue is the wiring here and nothing else! (famous last words)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

they are all nailed down chipboard so not an easy one on that front either (particularly as ive just had the upstairs fitted with new carpets).

It doesn't help with the problem you created by carpeting before you sorted out the electrics, but this is the solution for chipboard floors:

 

[ilprincipe86]

Hi - thanks for the input.

I wouldnt say 'I created the problem' by having carpets laid mind you - a tad uncalled for, sir.

Obviously pulling the carpets up and drilling through chipboard is not beyond the realms of possibility but to my previous comments I was querying whether this something that could be rectified quite easily based on how I believe this problem has come about (previous tenant changing the switch).

If someone suggests that lifting the carpets up etc. is the ONLY solution - then I will look to action that but if there is a simpler solution that can be implemented first then surely it makes sense to explore that before doing anything else.

 

[sparkwright]

Well, a nearby light, maybe the hall light for example, would have a neutral.

Any way of fishing a cable from here to the outside light?

Thought not.

In the original post, am i right in thinking this light never worked at all; or was it just very dim - perhaps only when the hall light was on??

It does seem odd for it to have been wired, wrongly, and left unworking.

Perhaps we have overlooked something, hopefully.

 

[ilprincipe86]

Hi sparkwright,
Thanks again for your thoughts - there is a nearby light in the hall which sounds like may offer a solution.

To your question, you are spot on, when its on, it is very dim.

Given what you and others have said, what i'm going to do is call an electrician and see what they offer in terms of viable solutions.
I was hoping this was something I could adjust myself, but this sounds like its going out of my range of things I could legally/safely do to correct.

I'll repost here once it has been corrected to update you and other people who encounter something similar on how it was (hopefully) fixed!

I appreciate the inputs though - at least the problem has been narrowed down and somewhat identified.
Regards.

 

[dannyboi2003]

Quick question to to OP....are the landing light and hall/downstairs light on the same circuit at the consumer unit? Basically have you got a separate upstairs/downstairs mcb/fuse?