3 gang switch mystery

[GSimon]

In the kitchen I have a 3 gang switch with one switch working as a 2-way for the utility. One worked the utility room (2way switching), another worked one light in the kitchen and another switch for another light in the same kitchen. Wife wanted spots. hurrah easy. Wrong. On removing lights no junction boxes or ceiling rose, just terminal blocks. Got the two spots in the kitchen ok but can't work out the utility lighting. From one of the (old) lights runs a cable (Live & Neutral) directly to the utility lights. On opening the the 3 gang switch - well it is a mystery. One cable coming down from light is wired on opposites on switch, another light cable in 2nd connection and last (top) with the last a wire is crossing to the bottom 3rd which on turn goes to single of the other 2way switch in utility and another two wires from utility switch to the 2 bottom left connections of the 3 gang in kitcken. Can anyone help? I have drawn a diagram but won't paste properly. Thanks.
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Moderator This may help

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

This does it for me (cheers breezer !!)

 

[GSimon]

 

[fido]

Try again! Click on Img, paste the URL then click on Close Tags.

 

[GSimon]

This does it for me (cheers breezer !!)

I have uploaded the wiring diagram for the 3 gang switch wiring - thanks

 

[felix]

Sorry, but I can't make sense of your disgram at all. There seem to be quite a few wires missing. Without more accurate information I'm afraid there's not a lot I can do.

Here's a bit of general information that might help. On a multi-gang switch the individual switches are set side by side. Each has a COM (or C) and two others marked L1 and L2 or something similar. The L terminals are on the OPPOSITE SIDE to their COM. This should help you make sense of your switches.

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

Just a little pointer, your "3 switch" switch in the kitchen is properly called a :- 3 gang, 2way switch.
Now does this mean you have a 2gang 2way or 2gang one way in your utility or a 1gang 2way ?

 

[GSimon]

The switch in the kitchen is one block not 3 sperate switches. So yes it must be 3 gang 2-way switch.The switch in the utility has 4 points . The TOP has connections 1 and 2, the bottom has also two connections. Between the two connection is written intermediate with arrows pointing on connection 1 and 2 and at the same time on connection is written C 2-way. The utility lights where connected to the terminal block connectors, now a proper junction box.

The diagram is correct as I have crossed checked several times, hence the mystery.
Thanks any more help?

PS diagram updated on ledgends!
PPS There is only 1 switch in the utility side - thanks

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

I admire your stamina GSimon !! It appears from your 1st two posts that there's a 6 hour gap, allowing for faffing and farting gives a max of 5 hrs kip! Mind I was on nights so I don't know what a kip is (ho ho !!).
If I remember correctly, an intermediate should have four wires in it (+ earths), 2 from sw1 and 2 from sw2, if it can be used as an "end of circuit switch", I don't know (bridging wire ???). So I'll gracefully stand back and I'm knackered but not tired, brain has sloooowwwwed right down .

 

[felix]

An intermediate switch can always be used as a simple changeover by ignoring any one of the four terminals. The remaining terminal at the same end becomes COM. Your two way wiring, using the leftmost of the three gang switch (terminals upper left C and lower left L1, L2) ,is correct.

The problem I have is mostly with the middle switch. Its three terminals are upper L1, L2 and lower C and, according to your diagram, only one of them is connected - to the neutral return from "other spot lights". If that diagram is correct then not only is the middle switch useless but the spots can never work either!

The rightmost switch (terminals upper right C and lower right L1, L2) COULD work except there is no apparent source of live power to feed it.

It's beginnig to look like some small wire has fallen out unseen. At the very least, you MUST have had one more wire in your middle switch if it was ever going to do anything. The situation is not unretrievable but we'll need details of what's in that junction box to get any further.

 

[GSimon]

Hi felix and scooby (and fido cats and dogs!) - well I have been racking my brains all day today while driving 200 miles to Ely and Tethford and back home. Finally i got it so I taught I'll share it with you guys. Below is a diagram I finally sketched (after about 5 attempts). It took me another 60 miles to visualize it into practice, simple when you know.

Looking at the switch diagram - the two wires (single cable) coming down from other spots, the red wire is live and is supplying the 2 common connections plus also supplying the C connection on the 2 way intermediate switch, hence switch is pernament live. The red wire from the the C connection leading up to the junction box should now be attached to the utility (live) side of the bulb. The neutral is supplied only in the ceiling between the junction boxes (which means the live cable of that neutral is redundant and made safe). So the kitchen lights are lit via C (live) and L2 of the 1st switch. The spots are lit via C (live) and L2 of the middle switch and the utility light is lit via C connection 1 (live) of the intermediate switch throught the 2 way system and C connection of the 3 switch. So the crap head (or genius whichever way you want to look at it) wanted to save money by not using an extra cable to go up to the utility light but by using instead one cable (the one going to the junction box in the diagram) to act as return for both the kitchen and utility lights. The red wire is acting as a return for the utility light - I hope you followed all this as my hands are aching now with all this typing and a headache with thinking about this all day and night for the last two days. any feedback welcomed.

Thanks guys once again and let this be a lesson - do not cut corners