3 Questions on roof refurbishment

[Cristian]

Hi Everyone,

we need to refurbish our residential building flat roof (6 flats on 3 floors, around 150 square metres), as condensation led to board deterioration. Essentially we're going to strip out the old/deteriorated boards and install brand new ones, and apply torch-on felt.

We have contacted a number of roofers for this, I just have 3 questions that I hope I could get some opinions on.

1. Temporary roof: all the contractors we contacted said there is a slight chance of water ingress during the works if no temporary roof is put in place. This would be relatively costly, so I just wanted to know whether you think it's good value for money or we can do without it.

2. Do we need to get the local council involved? We have been advised that Building Control / Planning should not be required if the contractor is member of the Competent Roofer Scheme (ie. self-certification is allowed) and the project is only a renewal. Is this correct?

3. We have been advised to request the service of a qualified third party to administer the work and process. In your experience, is this role necessary to facilitate a smoother execution of work / relationship with contractors, for a relatively small project like this?

Many thanks in advance for any opinions you might want to share!

 

[^woody^]

1. Not necessary. We have managed this type of work many times over the years and never have contractors asked for (nor we specified) a temporary scaffold cover. They just need to watch the weather forecast and plan ahead.

2. Correct. But insulation may need to be upgraded thats a key part of the competent contractor schemes - make sure they dont self certify something that they should have done differently.

3. It depends how good/reputable the roofing firm is. But it will focus their minds if work is inspected daily. Strictly, if you are going to use someone to monitor/inspect the work, then that person should be specifying the work too, not just checking the roofers own design and specification. Insurances, warranties, materials, type of system to be used.

Be aware that CDM will apply to this. Asbestos, method statements, risk assessments, proper scaffolding, barriers, welfare, H&S checks and all that malarkey. The roofer will be "Principle Contractor" under CDM and will do most of this, but you are the client will need to check that everything is in place. Or the person used in (3) above can do it as "Principle Designer".

And if condensation has damaged the roof, then make sure it is designed differently when renewed.

 

[noseall]

1. Temporary roof: all the contractors we contacted said there is a slight chance of water ingress during the works if no temporary roof is put in place. This would be relatively costly, so I just wanted to know whether you think it's good value for money or we can do without it.

Our most recent job required a full canopy scaffold with wrap around poly. It was an absolute boon and impossible to carry out the work without it.
However, in a lot of cases a full canopy is a waste of money - unless of course there is that chance that something valuable gets damaged during the course of the work. Ours only cost about £2k more than a conventional scaffold and I know for a fact that it paid for itself twice over.

If your contractors are conscious of the weather and their capabilities then there is no reason why they can't strip, replace and waterproof manageable areas.

 

[datarebal]

careful selection of the specialist contractor, They will be able to carry out strip and retile without a lid as second nature.
unless you are doing some tricky structural changes then its a luxury nothing more.
you can certainly have things checked out by bc or an independant.
schemes are paid for by you and could possibly be abused.
Its in everyone's interest to insulate correctly.

 

[Cristian]

Thank you very much for sharing your opinions above. I have one last question.

All the quotes that I received (around 35k on average) came with a manufacturer single point warranty for ~ 20 years. I understand it is best to seek an insurance backed warranty instead. I did some research and things can get a bit convoluted, so I was hoping I could get some clarity here.

- What is the benefit of having BOTH a manufacturer guarantee and an insurance backed warranty? Do they cover differ risks/areas?
- All the quotes we received only included a rather generic reference to the warranty included. Shouldn't I need to be provided with the full documentation instead (seems obvious to me, I guess I just want to know if it's normal not to receive it without an explicit request for it).
- More generally, what are the catches / points I need to pay attention to / things that need to be included in the guarantee?

- Finally, once the most appropriate type of warranty is identified, is there any benefit in purchasing it from a third party, or is it best to get it via the contractors / manufacturer?


My questions cover quite an extensive area, so again thanks in advance for any help (I searched the forum but could not find any message with all the above points - if there is one I'd be glad to be pointed to it )

 

[^woody^]

For a client to be able to benefit from a manufacturer's warranty, the contractor must be trained and approved by the manufacturer, and the system installed in accordance with the manufacturer's specification. It will be as good as an insurance backed warranty.

See www.ikogroup.co.uk/support-service/guarantees/ and http://gbr.liquidplastics.sika.com/en/group/about/ourservice/guarantees.html for general guidance.

You need to be sure what warranty you are being given, as a contractor work warranty together with a manufacturer material warranty is more risky if the contractor goes bump.

If the contractor provides an all encompassing insurance warranty then that should cover you, but check the terms and period of cover and limitations. You may need regular inspections to validate the warranty over the period of cover.

 

[datarebal]

For a client to be able to benefit from a manufacturer's warranty, the contractor must be trained and approved by the manufacturer,

not strictly correct .

 

[^woody^]

not strictly correct .

What is then?

 

[Notch7]

What is the benefit of having BOTH a manufacturer guarantee and an insurance backed warranty? Do they cover differ risks/areas?

There are 2 main points:

1 installers warranty, should be considered as 'up to 20 years or as long as they are in business'.

2. IBW / IBG these work by backing the companies guarantee. If the business closes, then the insurance coveds the warranty for the remaining period.

I offer IBGs but I recently did a job for somebody in property investment, he checked out the small print and showed the insurance was mostly worthless, despite costing £300 per policy.

My advice would be not to worry much about warranties, put all your effort into researching the roofing company. Speak to recent customers etc.

Are you choosing felt, or ankther product likd EPDM, single ply membrane, liquid roof etc? Products like Sarnafil can only be installed by approved contractors and the manufacturers may offer their own warranty and technical back up.

 

[^woody^]

My advice would be not to worry much about warranties

This is six flats. That might be six lots of "clients", six lots of leasehold or six lots of tenants.

That's also six lots of potential complaints and six lots of claims. Six lots of impact on sale values and insurance cover?

And if leases are involved, does the consultation process apply?

 

[^woody^]

We always specify a system with a complete manufacturer's warranty installed by an approved contractor.

The contractor is liable under contract regardless for six years, but the overriding cover is from the manufacturer.