A very sad story and a plea for help.

[mortonjag]

My first post folks. I've been doing DIY for over 40 years and I'm by any standards very experienced. I was recently asked by a friend of a friend to refurbish her kitchen. When I'd almost completed the job she forced me to stop and paid me nothing. I have successfully sued her for payment but here's the hitch. Five months after I finished, the flat below was flooded. An emergency plumber claimed that I had been negligent in not fitting-wait for it-not one but four inserts when I made Speedfit connections!!!

I'm certain that the plumber was an honest guy, and that there was malicious damage and I'm currently investigating that.

Yesterday I got a letter from loss adjusters holding ME liable for Insurers outlays.

I was taken on to do the work as a 'friend'. There was no written agreement, I'm not a tradesmen, and she always knew I had no insurance.

Even assuming it was my fault who is ultimately responsible?

 

[WabbitPoo]

Firstly, I am no lawyer but I thought I'd reply to offer some opinions and get the ball rolling while you wait foir some better advice....

Secondly, choose your friends more wisely.

Thirdly, even if you not a "tradesman" you entered a contract for which you ended up being paid, so I would imagine you take on any liability for future damage due to the work you did.

Fourthly, its going to be your word against hers I would think. Are you suggesting that she (or someone on her behalf) turned off the water, took out 4 inserts and put the water back on, to purposely flood the downstairs flat? If you really think she could do that, and that you are sure in your heart (look deep within yourself) that you were not at fault, then you have no option but to be taken to court by her or the insurance company and argue the case there.

As I said, I am not a legal pro (as you can tell) but logic would say you are going to have a tough time. I hope not, if you are in the right, but just you need to be ready.

Good luck with it though.....

 

[mortonjag]

Good luck with it though.....

Thanks.

It IS a very complicated situation, and I AM suggesting exactly what you've described. I've currently got a private investigator working on the case!

I've already been to court and had an award made against her. That award was made by a Sheriff after he considered ALL the evidence, and on what he considered to be the 'value' of the work completed. The Sheriff accepted that there had been no written contract, and that I had NOT started the work primarily with the intention of being 'paid'

Anyway, what I'm asking is quite simple. If somebody engages a 'friend' to do work in the full knowledge that he's not a tradesman, and not insured for public liability (irrespective of any unwritten 'understanding about potential 'reward') who is ultimately liable for subsequent mishaps?

 

[Stivino]

So with four inserts missing, it took five months to flood the flat below? I would've thought it would have been flooded within five hours. Somebody's at the ham.

 

[bathstyle]

So to summarise; a DIYer has completed a large job for someone for cash, and that person doesn't even have Public Liabilty!!!!

I would be keeping quiet about the whole thing if I were you, you need to decide what you are, a tradesman or a DIYer because where I'm stranding you're a tradesman who is trading illegally.

This is why I awlays urge customers to deal with proper Legitimate tradesmen, get a copy of their Public Liabily + Employers Liabilty (if relevant) Certificates and check them over.

 

[IJWS15]

Don't John Guest recommend the use of inserts rathr than say it is mandatory to use them

If it is only recommended by the manuacturer surely their case fails.

BTW I know what the advice given by plumbers on here is.

 

[mortonjag]

where I'm stranding you're a tradesman who is trading illegally.

...and from where I'm sitting you're another tradesman squatting on a DIY forum!

Of course I won't be 'keeping the whole thing quiet'. I'll be declaring the award made by the Sheriff (after three hours of evidence by both parties) to the Inland Revenue.

Let me tell you a little more my friend. The legitimate tradesman whose job sheet I have seen and who told the other party that I'd been negligent only put in four stiffeners. There were FOUR elbows (two connecting to the 15mm copper supply pipes) and he didn't even check the other two 'plastic pipe ends, nor did he make any recommendation for follow up.

Now THAT's what I call negligent. The best DIYers are miles ahead of average tradesman.

I've seen the solicitor today and we're pursuing a malicious damage action.

 

[bathstyle]

First things last, there wouldn't be a forum if it was full of DIYers, I can just imagine what some of the replies would be if every single tradesmen left the forum

I'm trying to understand this a little more, help me out here; you didn't use the inserts on 4 pipe ends therefore the house flooded?

Why don't you have insurance? you pay tax on your income, are you a proper company or not?

 

[WabbitPoo]

No, the OP said he is a DIYer.

 

[bathstyle]

DIY should be done at home, if you start doing it for customers for money then it can't be classed as DIY can it?

Something doesn't add up here and I will keep on this post until I find out

 

[iaink]

whats her address, i could pay her"A VISIT"

 

[WabbitPoo]

I've seen the solicitor today and we're pursuing a malicious damage action.

Against whom?

Let me clarify the situation, if you will permit me:

1. A friend asked you to do some work, for which she was going to pay you
2. she pulled out part way through
3. you sued her successfully for the money she owed
4. downstairs got flooded
5. she blames you
6. a plumber blames you
7. you blame something/someone else
8. you are suing someone for malicious damage

That the gist?

 

[electronicsuk]

If you didn't use a pipe insert then you'd be at fault, as JGs word on the subject is as follows:

Pipe Inserts. Pipe inserts must be used and fully inserted on all connections to MDPE, LDPE, PEX or PB pipe.

However, if you used the inserts then it's seems nearly inconceivable that even a semi-competent DIYer would be able to forget as many as four inserts on a small job.

As you say, if your version of events is relatively unbiased then it seems likely that foul play has been involved - after all, your ex-friend has probably been looking for a way to get her money back since you sued her for the works you completed. I'm interested to know why she asked you to stop the work just before you finished, though?

Of course, the above is just my personal opinion, if you want some legal advice then you might be better off trying a legal forum. I'd be suprised if there really was any case against you - I'm not sure how there would be substantial evidence to prove that the leak was down to a fault on your part.

 

[WabbitPoo]

Come on, mortonjag - there's some questions building up here.........you asked for advice, now engage with us.

 

[corgikiller666]

so you say diyers are better than tradesmen and yet to made such a basic error?


diy is not diy when you are being paid either is it are you saying you are an untaxed, uninsured and unqualified cowboy?