Accenta G4 - defunct?

[agfoxford]

Hello there,

sorry, DIY novice with very little experience here so please excuse my stupid question!

I was wondering whether I could get an opinion on an Accenta G4 alarm and its probable state of activation...
I moved into a flat fittend with an Accenta Mini GEN4 with LCD Keypad system with infrared sensors. The system was not used by the previous owners, so has been unused for at least six years now - I was never given any codes. In that time none of the batteries have been changed. The alarm has never gone off. None of the LCD on either the main panel or the remote keypad have ever been lit. At a recent power failure, there was no sound either of alarm of of beeping from the panels either.

Could you tell me whether I can conclude from this that the system is completely offline, and for example removal of any of the infrared sensors and cutting the cables will not result in a tamper alarm?

And IF I were to cut one of the cables (one of the sensors is very much in the way of a renovation project), and it DOES go off, would cutting the main power line to the outside siren/sounder box shut it off again?

Thanks a lot, all help very much appreciated!

 

[secureiam]

what is the outside bell box doing?

also whilst it sounds like its been down powered is there power to the fused spur, as the panel could be live, but internal fuses blown.

so power to the panel but not to the pcb and beyond, risk of electric shock.

 

[agfoxford]

Well....the outside bellbox is blessedly quiet

And um...what exactly is a "fused spur"? What is a "pcb"? (Sorry, I did say I was a DIY novice...)

And can I test all this and if so where? (I do have a voltage tester at least...)

Ta!

 

[secureiam]

The answer is you shouldn't touch it then, as to do electrical work you need to a minimum of being competent.

However as you don't know how or where to test or what to look for I advised you get a professional to ensure the system is properly isolated from the mains before you remove the unit.

You need to make sure the mains power safely disconnected (isolated) from the panel.

I wouldn't want you to get electrocuted.

 

[agfoxford]

I can do basic wiring, so I'm not completely incompetent, but as I said I have no experience with security systems, so I'm afraid I simply don't understand your specialist jargon - what *is* a pcb? What do you mean by "spur"?

The main issue is that I don't know what to look for or what is safe to do - as in, I can certainly find the fuses to isolate the main system panel from power (and all the internal fuses seem to be working), and I can then isolate the main panel, but does that isolate the individual sensors as well or to they have a different power source (as in backup in case of power outages)? I can (and of course certainly would) also test the individual sensor I want to take out for power to make sure I don't electrocute myself, but will isolating the main panel/power to the sensor, removing one of the sensors from the circuit, and restoring power result in a tamper alarm which I don't know how to switch off? Would simply reconnecting the wires after taking the unit out be enough, since I assume the number/position of the sensors is somewhere registered on the system?

Cheers.

 

[secureiam]

It isn't the security side that worries me so much.

The mains power that may be supplying the panel and how its isolated and disconnected does.

It didn't mean to offend, but if you don't know what to look for or test, this isn't a good place to start from when trying to isolate from the mains safely and I am not going any further, someone else might.

The panel appears to be dead, but mains may still be getting to the panel and that needs to be tested for and isolated properly.

Can you trace the mains from the panel to a fused spur(box with a fuse compartment?) or does it go back to your fuse box or consumer unit.
You need to make sure no live cables are left exposed.

for example I wanted to move a panel, I follow the cable back.
wait there is no fused spur (it happens) so I cant isolate there, I have to continue, I may find it wired into the back of a plug socket or ceiling rose or split from a junction box.

To isolate that I need to check that there is no power getting to that ceiling rose junction box or socket and so on.

It doesn't stop at either of those it goes all the way back to the consumer unit( I am not allowed to touch it/ remove it from the consumer unit) so I could isolate it by flicking the switch, then I need to make sure it cant be reactivated and leave an exposed live cable accidentally or otherwise.

There isn't necessarily one possible outcome on what may need to be done.

Mains can kill.

 

[secureiam]

as for the reconnection later, take photographs and make sure the cables are labelled up properly.

as for will it work, I would get mains power back to it first and try and see if it does light up I would probably remove the back up battery first and check all the fuses before reapplying the mains.

 

[TonyW2]

You can get a manual from the internet for this panel. It may be worth researching the topic, given you really do seem to be a novice with electrics.
Essentially you need to open the panel, but unless you have managed to isolate it from the mains, then there is a risk of mains powered parts being touchable. Switching off the main premises consumer unit would be the best starting point,if you cannot find the actual supply and isolation point to the panel. (NB Even that does not absolutely guarantee isolation.)
Opening the panel should cause the alarms to sound, as in the absence of mains supply, the panel battery should provide power. With your new found knowledge, you should be able to identify the incoming mains supply point and test it carefully to confirm there is no supply.
(NB If it is live, you have a risk problem and some strange supply arrangement and may not be able to turn off the alarm bell, without the code, until you can safely disconnect the supply to the panel
(Do you still want to undertake the work?)
Assuming the panel is isolated from the mains then the panel battery can be removed to silence the alarm (assuming the battery is still active) although the bell box battery may also kick in to sound the bell. However, the box battery will run down eventually (if not already discharged) or can be removed using ladder access.
Having removed the mains supply and the panel battery, the panel can default to factory settings (see the very unclear instructions in the manual)
The mains supply can be disconnected and terminated safely and the batteries removed if you wish to disable the panel completely, or whilst in that state you can work on the circuits to the sensors to remove or disable them.
If things do not work out, though, you could be left with no way to restore mains supply at the consumer unit without a ringing alarm until you sort out the main incoming supply to the panel.
It is really quite simple and the job would develop your skills and knowledge, but understanding of the circuit relationships is needed.
(Do you still want to undertake the work?)