Advice - double glazing - gaps between plaster & frame

[NickB_99]

Hi

I'm just in the process of having double glazing fitted. Some windows are done today and probably another day or two to go.

The glazing before was single glazing with wooden frames (prob as original) and had later had internal glazing added about 2-3 inches inside.

It all looks immaculate from the outside, well sealed, very pleased with the quality of the units etc.
However, on the inside there are gaps (varying approx 2-5mm) between the frame and the original plaster. The frames seem sized correctly width and height to adequately fill the brickwork.
The added problem is the plaster in the reveals is not the best and taking off the internal glazing has broken/weakened it. In fact round the frame in a couple of places large bits have broken off leaving 1-2 inch gaps of reveal plaster and some brick.
The original plaster also seems to slope up at the edge slightly. I guess where it was plastered up to the original wood frames. This I would imagine needs chipping off to lower to get a flat finish to the reveal.

I think the original plan for the fitters was to fit plastic strips around the inside, but given the state of the plaster, they requested clarification this morning on what I wanted.

The first question is - do double glazing fitters normally make good inside and fill large gaps so that only a plaster skim is needed? Or is this open to debate/prior agreement what they do?
I have a 'willing volunteer' house sitting during the day with them and when the fitters asked them for clarification, I was phoned to double check. They asked if I was going to get it plastered, if so, they recommended they leave on the protective tape on the frames. Is this a cop out?

The second question is if I am expected to fill all gaps and plaster myself, do you plaster directly up to the frame or should there some internal bead fitted to keep it back from the frame?

I can imagine getting the protective tape out after you've plastered up to the edge is a bit difficult. I wouldn't want to slice the UPVC using a stanley knife and cause damage later!

Any prompt advice appreciated, as they will be due to finish in 1-2 days and I'd like to ask some questions.

 

[Richard C]

The first question is - do double glazing fitters normally make good inside and fill large gaps so that only a plaster skim is needed? Or is this open to debate/prior agreement what they do?

It’s almost inevitable you’re going to get internal plaster damage that will have to be made good after the new windows are fitted. DG companies will usually just fit an additional angle bead around the inside (& sometimes the outside) to cover it up but using large flat lumps of bead around the frame if the damage is excessive is a bodge IMO & looks really naff. Making good externally should be automatically included but it’s not usual for DG companies to include making good internal plaster work unless you specifically ask for it to be done & the contract will obviously be reflect a considerably higher price. Plastering is the best way to go IMO.

I have a 'willing volunteer' house sitting during the day with them and when the fitters asked them for clarification, I was phoned to double check. They asked if I was going to get it plastered, if so, they recommended they leave on the protective tape on the frames. Is this a cop out?

No it’ not essential to leave the protective tape in place but saves time when cleaning up.

The second question is if I am expected to fill all gaps and plaster myself, do you plaster directly up to the frame or should there some internal bead fitted to keep it back from the frame?

Re making good, see above. If I'm completely replastering the reveal, I use a plaster stop edge bead against the frame as it gives a nice flat edge.

I can imagine getting the protective tape out after you've plastered up to the edge is a bit difficult. I wouldn't want to slice the UPVC using a stanley knife and cause damage later!

Trimming the film off with a Stanley knife should not leave a noticeable cut if it’s done properly; don’t try & just pull it off or you will crack the edge of the new plaster! It’s also usual to apply a bead of flexible decorators caulk around the inside of the frame even after re-plastering & this will cover the area anyway.

 

[NickB_99]

Thanks for the feedback - found it reassuring.
Sorry for the basic questions following, but I'm still learning!

If I'm completely replastering the reveal, I use a plaster stop edge bead against the frame as it gives a nice flat edge.

Do you mean a bead such as http://www.screwfix.com/prods/16258...ternal-Stop-Plaster-Bead-12mm-x-3M-Pack-of-5#
Do you have any tips for putting into the gap between frame/plaster and fixing in place? e.g. drywall adhesive, bonding, filler?

It’s also usual to apply a bead of flexible decorators caulk around the inside of the frame even after re-plastering & this will cover the area anyway.

How easy is decorator's caulk to work with? Not used (- yet!)
Does it go straight on and best not touch? require a smooth over with a finger after etc or wet it later? Any top tips to applying it for best results would be well received.
I've used bathroom silicone a couple of times, which always seems to be difficult to apply and get smooth in a decent run.
With nice new shiny double glazing, would prefer not to mess it up inside now!

 

[Richard C]

Do you mean a bead such as http://www.screwfix.com/prods/16258...ternal-Stop-Plaster-Bead-12mm-x-3M-Pack-of-5#

No wrong one; sorry I should have said “thin coat stop bead”;

http://www.british-gypsum.com/produ...tle_beads/thistle_thin_coat_plaster_stop.aspx

I usually get all my plaster beading from B&Q but for some inexplicable reason they don’t sell stop bead so I get mine from the local Builders Merchant; ask for a discount but they will still be more expensive!

Do you have any tips for putting into the gap between frame/plaster and fixing in place? e.g. drywall adhesive, bonding, filler?

Gaps between the plaster & frame or where the plaster has come away back to brick, I would fill these flush using Bonding plaster but you could use one coat plaster or even filler if you feel more comfortable with it. Difficult to say without seeing it but it may be all that’s needed to get it looking neat. In this case I would not use a stop bead, I only use these if re-skimming the whole reveal.

How easy is decorator's caulk to work with? Not used (- yet!)
Does it go straight on and best not touch? require a smooth over with a finger after etc or wet it later? Any top tips to applying it for best results would be well received.
I've used bathroom silicone a couple of times, which always seems to be difficult to apply and get smooth in a decent run.

Using caulk guns & getting a pro finish is an acquired skill; pull the gun away with a steady pressure, don’t push & smooth over quickly with a wet finger; saliva is best but you can use water. It’s also important to cut the size of the nozzle to get the correct size bead & beginners always apply the bead too slowly; quickly is best as it gives a very consistent bead but you have to get the pressure right. Applying decorators caulk is easier & more forgiving than silicone; don’t use silicone, emulsion paint won’t stick to it.

 

[NickB_99]

Thanks Richard. Good advice once again.