Advice Needed Please!

[lorrainer]

I have recently had a new kitchen fitted. The electrician has put in a number of new sockets and light switches, along with fitting an electric cooker and hob (along with the relevant supply for this). He has also put in a new fuse board.

He now wants paying and hasn't given me any invoice etc - and also does not want to give me a certificate for the works as it costs him £60.

He said a certificate is not needed as he joined the sockets and lights on to circuits already there.

My understanding under the new regulations is that I do need some certification as the work took place in the kitchen - and that I need to be able to show this when selling my house in future. I've also heard that worse case scenario is that I could be asked to have the kitchen removed to check the work???!!!

He did say that if there is any problem in years to come he could arrange to issue me with a certificate. Presumably that is if he is still in the area!

Suggestions please

 

[ricicle]

If you are in England or Wales this work should have been notified to your Local Authority Building Control as per Part P of The Building Regulations.
If your electrician was registered then he should have carried out these works and notified.As a minimum you should have receive a minor works certificate if no new circuits were created from your consumer unit.Some LABCs will also send you an acknowledgment of the notification.
I suggest you do some probing with your sparky before you part with any money!!

 

[lorrainer]

Thanks for that.

Any other suggestions/info please?

 

[ricicle]

Reading through your post again, he sounds like a right cowboy.Do not part with any money and threaten to report him to the Local Building Control

 

[davy_owen_88]

He said a certificate is not needed as he joined the sockets and lights on to circuits already there.

He has also put in a new fuse board.

Did he perform any tests? Has he given you an electrical installation certificate?

 

[lorrainer]

If I had known I wouldn't get any certificate from the electrician, I would have got my DIY'er father-in-law to do it for free

I went to the electrician because of the new regulations!

To: davy_owen_88 - no he has not given me any certificate. I don't know what tests he has done - because to be honest I don't know enough about it - which is why I got in a qualified electrician

 

[davy_owen_88]

Well no offence intended, but as you knew about the new regulations before hand, why didn't you confirm that the electrician you chose was going to follow them?

Where did you find this electrician? Did he mention/imply that he was a member of a self certification scheme?

 

[lorrainer]

Hi davy

No offence taken.

All I knew is that there are now new regulations and that an electrician needs to give you a certificate at the end of work - so you can't just get in a DIY'er.

I don't know what the regulations are - which is why I went to a qualified registered electrician. I thought that if he is legally obliged to give me a certificate then he would have - and that I wouldn't need to check that he was going to give me a certificate as it is the law that he has to?.

He has since told me I don't need a certificate - which is what made me question him.

 

[davy_owen_88]

Well, it isn't the law for him to give you an EIC, but it is the law that certain jobs are notified or performed by an electrician who is a member of a self certification scheme.

Now, if he was a member of a self cert scheme it wouldn't cost him £60 to notify the work which leads me to believe that he is indeed not registered. This mean that he has broken the law by not notifying the work before hand. Unfortunately for you, the responsibility for notification lies with the householder unless the electrician is a member of a self cert. scheme.

 

[lorrainer]

Thanks. All very confusing. I think he does work for a local authority - so should be registered.

Any suggestions on where I go from here?

 

[davy_owen_88]

Thanks. All very confusing. I think he does work for a local authority - so should be registered.

Any suggestions on where I go from here?

Find out if he is a member of a self certification scheme. If he is, tell him that you want an EIC which is a requirement of BS7671 and that you expect a building certificate stating compliance with P1 of the building regs.

If he isn't a member of a self certification scheme, then you tell him that you won't be paying a penny, and that if he makes a fuss you will be reporting him to trading standards and anyone else that will listen/care. Then you need to inform your BCO that work was carried out by an 'electrician' that you thought was registered but then turned out not to be and follow their advice/demands (may involve destroying your house )

 

[lorrainer]

What about destroying his house - that seems very tempting at the moment

 

[lorrainer]

Sorry - meant to say - thanks very much for all your help. It really is appreciated.

 

[securespark]

He may be able to self certify when he is working for his employer (like me) but not covered personally. The minimum he should have done (assuming he was able to s/c) was a minor electrical works certificate for additions & an electrical installation certificate for the board change. He is in contravention of the 16th Edition Regulations (BS7671) if he has not.

Inspection and testing has been necessary since the first regs came into force. That's 1882, btw!!

Don't pay him!!

 

[dingbat]

Just to try and address your original post with some clarity:

I have recently had a new kitchen fitted. The electrician has put in a number of new sockets and light switches, along with fitting an electric cooker and hob (along with the relevant supply for this). He has also put in a new fuse board.

You should have been given an Electrical Installation Certificate, as prescribed by BS 7671 (The IEE Wiring Regulations). As he has changed the fuseboard this certificate should cover every circuit in the house, with any deficiencies brought up to date or noted on the certificate.

He now wants paying and hasn't given me any invoice etc - and also does not want to give me a certificate for the works as it costs him £60.

As others have suggested, this may be the Building Notice fee. Whilst BS 7671 is non-statutory, the Building Regulations are enforceable in law and the work he has done (new circuit, fuseboard change, alterations to circuits in a kitchen) is all notifiable. Regardless of the 'legality' of his work, it is an offence not to notify. (£5000 max fine... a bit more than £60)

He said a certificate is not needed as he joined the sockets and lights on to circuits already there.

BS 7671 requires certification for any electrical work, including maintenance, such as replacing a light switch. Part P of the building regulations makes even minor work, such as altering an existing circuit in a kitchen or special location, notifiable. (There's that £5000 fine again)

My understanding under the new regulations is that I do need some certification as the work took place in the kitchen - and that I need to be able to show this when selling my house in future. I've also heard that worse case scenario is that I could be asked to have the kitchen removed to check the work???!!!

When you sell you will be asked if you have had any electrical work carried out since January 2005. Any notifiable work (all the stuff he's done) will be expected to be covered by a compliance certificate. Although a process known as 'regularisation' is available, the cost will be down to you and yes, in extremis, you could be compelled to have the work removed.

Suggestions please

Contact the electrican and tell him all this. If he does not supply an Electrical Installation Certificate and arrange for a Building Regulations Compliance Certificate, contact your local authority building control office and inform them of the work, asking them what you need to do to get a compliance certificate.
Then contact Trading Standards
Don't pay his bill until you are satisfied that all is above board - if all is as you have posted here, you have a very good case against him.