Advice on en-suite bathroom

[torus]

Hi: I'm looking for some advice on installing an en suite bathroom for my elderly mother, with WC, shower and basin in a small existing dfressing room to one side of a main bedroom in a large Victorian house.

The room faces the front of the house, in between the two main front bedrooms. The existing bathroom is to the side of the house, and the exterior wall (where the existing soil pipes leave the house) is about 15-18ft from where I would want the new shower and toilet. I've attached a diagram (in my profile) to illustrate the layout.

I had presumed that, with the addition of a macerating unit, there would be sufficient depth under the floorboards for the waste to run under the second bedroom and out to the side of the house (the joists lie in the right direction for this). I had a visit from the design team of a major DIY chain who pulled a 'didn't think it possible' face but, to be honest, I wasn't convinced he really knew what he was talking about.

Could some kind soul have a glance and offer any advice? -I'd be most grateful...[/img]

 

[mcmoby69]

in my limited experience of macerators, you have to pump it upwards before it can start to fall. i may be corrected tho. due to the unpleasant nature of the machines i try and stay away from them. there is enough carp to deal with in my usual job.

in an ideal world i would only consider one if all other avenues had been exhausted. there are some people who specialise in them tho.

 

[torus]

OK thanks...I'm less than ecstatic about the prospect myself but presumed it was the obvious solution...

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

4" pipe is always preferable but if you have a second W.C. in the property in case the macerator fails then it is an option. A Saniflo would be ok on horizontal discharge, (if any vertical run of discharge pipework is required this must be immediately after the macerator, not halfway along the run!). May need an AAV IIRC to prevent the siphonage from the unit when it stops pumping.

Golden rule with a macerator though, dont put anything through it that hasn't been through you. (Or it will break it!!!!) Taking a jammed macerator apart is not a pleasant experience...

 

[torus]

It's a flat run under the floor and out into the main soil pipe over a distance of about 18ft...I'm presuming that there's no reason, in principle, why a Saniflow or similar couldn't be used in this situation (in fact I'm guessing they're designed for exactly this purpose)...the so-called 'installation consultant' who had a look today clearly didn't have a clue what I was talking about and basically said there was no physical way the room could be used as an en-suite.

Out of interest, I'm also presuming that there's no way a conventional waste pipe could run under a floor over that distance...?

 

[cantaloup63]

It's a flat run under the floor and out into the main soil pipe over a distance of about 18ft...I'm presuming that there's no reason, in principle, why a Saniflow or similar couldn't be used in this situation (in fact I'm guessing they're designed for exactly this purpose)...the so-called 'installation consultant' who had a look today clearly didn't have a clue what I was talking about and basically said there was no physical way the room could be used as an en-suite.

A call to saniflow tech department will clear this up if you like. However, even a browse through the installation manual for a sanipro which seems to be the product you're after for the ensuite indicates that it shouldn't be a problem

Out of interest, I'm also presuming that there's no way a conventional waste pipe could run under a floor over that distance...?

Whether you are referring to a soil pipe or washbasin/shower waste pipe, the problem you have is that it requires a minimum fall which unless you have exceptionally deep joists or are willing to allow the pipe to be boxed in and run aong a ceiling downstairs, then it will not be possible.

Sanipro looks like the solution, although it might require a bit of clever planning to raise the shower tray without being too much of an obstacle for your mother.

Nobody has mentioned the need for you to involve Building Control for the conversion of this room. That's if you intend to do it legitimately and have all the paperwork in place should you ever decide or need to sell up in the (hopefully far) future.

 

[Nige F]

] referring to a soil pipe or washbasin/shower waste pipe, the problem you have is that it requires a minimum fall which unless you have exceptionally deep joists or are willing to allow the pipe to be boxed in and run aong a ceiling downstairs, then it will not be possible.

Nobody has mentioned the need for you to involve Building Control for the conversion of this room. That's if you intend to do it legitimately and have all the paperwork in place should you ever decide or need to sell up in the (hopefully far) future.

Min. fall as per textbook is 2.5 degrees . Ratio of 1:40 is bandied about everwhere - I can tell you that 1:60 even 80 will work - I have c. 1:70 on my outside drain from WC. There was no choice due to the existing drain levels I have 30 feet between inspection points - 6 litre WC , bath basin , shower . No problems : I would be under your floor with a tape measure - large Viccy house could have adequate space for a 110mm. soil pipe . Dead right about informing Build Control. Good Luck

 

[torus]

Many thanks for the input guys- i had read the Saniflow literature but it's good to get some impartial advice!. Would still prefer to manage without it if at all possible though.

The joists are fairly substantial: haven't checked for this particular room but on the floor above they're about 7" deep- if the pipe entered the floor cavity at the adjoining wall between the en suite and second bedroom then I reckon I could achieve a fall of around 1 in 60 across the span of the room.

I was aware of the need for planning regs- thanks for mentioning it tho!