Advice on laid screed in garage floor

[Mike0287]

Hi everyone, I'm after some advice on some work I've recently had done in my garage by a local flooring company. Unfortunately I've been left with a large number of holes in my floor due to air bubbles coming through and the fitting company can't understand why ... I'll outline below the steps taken and the products used - if anyone has any ideas as right now I'm stuck between my house builder and the fitter with a holey floor and no one can give me an answer on what to do next.

The house was finished being built in April 2017 which is when we moved in. The screed was first laid on the 12th October this year.

1. Stopgap 131 was rolled onto the bare concrete floor in the garage as the primer
2. Stopgap 1200 was then placed on top for the first layer of screed - loads of air bubbles came through so called them back
3. Another layer of 131 was rolled on top of the laid screed
4. 1200 placed on top again - bubbles came through again. He rolled the floor with a spiky roller while I was stood there, the bubbles then came back through again showing that air was still being released from something into the mixture
5. They came back a third time and laid Stopgap 400 on the top. It looked like a mortar type mix for filling cracks and repairing floor. As they laid this down you could audibly hear popping as it was even being forced out of the holes ...
6. They went ahead and laid another layer of screed on top of this (not sure if they primed a third time or not) and although the floor looks better, there are still loads of holes

My builder has so far simply said that an adequate sealant should have been used as it's a concrete garage floor and that there would be nothing wrong with the original floor. The fitters have now made three visits and used a fair amount of product at mostly their expense by this point but now nothing is happening ... Any thoughts on what could be causing the holes given the points above or what I can say or try next?

I have photos and the product data sheets which I can attached if anyone wants me to.

Many thanks,

Mike

 

[dazlight]

Hi Mike
Did they dilute the P131 ? It should be 3-1 on concrete and not neat. You only put it on neat on ceramics , Ashpalt and a epoxy dpm.

Also I’d guess it’s on to soon as well as you should be waiting 28 days before screeding over the slab.

If the screed is dusty we do 2 coats of primer. Are you putt8mg a floor covering over the compound.

 

[Mike0287]

Thanks for your reply.

I've asked about the P131 and I've been told that they diluted it 4-1

Not sure what you mean by the 28 days unless you mean waiting after the concrete has been poured? If so, the house was finished in April 2017 and so the slab would have been poured prior to that.

They have now primed at least twice if not three times, with latex and P400 in between that ... They couldn't tell me why it's still bubbling and were saying they have done nothing wrong and that the concrete must be defective. They are also now saying that some subfloors are just more sandy than others, and that the number of holes I have could have been expected. I told the flooring company that wasn't what I was sold or warned about, I was sold a "mirror finish" which is perhaps why I'm so unhappy with the floor.

I wasn't going to cover the floor with anything, maybe just floor paint. The company have now warned me that a floor paint will probably just bubble as well?? They are now offering free fitting of a commercial vinyl if I pay for the vinyl ...

The customer service manager for the developer is now coming out next Wednesday to inspect the garage floor which I guess will involve cutting away a portion of the floor ... if no resolution can be found I will then be left with a ruined holey floor and still no one taking responsibility.

No idea what to do at this point and honestly just wish I had never bothered in the first place!

 

[KenGMac]

Mike0287, good evening.

Have you considered calling in the manufacturer?

Ken

 

[Mike0287]

Hi Ken,

Yes, certainly considered. At the time when conversation was remaining civil, the fitter was communicating with the manufacturer and relaying the information back to me. As this is going on I think I'll have no choice but to take things further myself. Unfortunately it appears the communication is really turning sour now and I won't have much recourse left but to start quoting Consumer Rights - really not something I wanted to get into for £200 latex floor but the company are unwilling now to continue working to correct the floor, and have so far refused me a refund and instead continue to simply point blame at the construction of the original floor itself.

Am I wrong in feeling that the correct inspection of the floor and agreement on what materials and cost are required to achieve the desired affect are the responsibility of the floor company? If the original substrate was particularly porous and further seals were required, it should be for them to decide and quote a cost accordingly? I don't understand how this can be up to me to know, or even the builder of the original floor to make right! What if the house I lived in was old and the builder unknown?

Mike

 

[KenGMac]

Mike, good evening again.

As I see it the supplier is supposed to be conversant with the product and as such is the representative of the supplier of the material and a competent "fitter" of said material.

As my O/P suggest you contact the manufacturer and request that they pop around and have a look? Invariably the manufacturer will recoil behind "My product is absolutely firs class, top notch Etc. Etc. Etc." and blame the installer.

Have a think about who you can get on your side, such as Trading Standards, or the CAB? If they exist in your area.

How about ? ? ? is the installer a member of an Association? or even better is he accredited by the manufacturer?? the latter is best to get some action?

Ken

 

[Mike0287]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for that, interesting points I hadn't considered it that way, I thought the manufacturer would rather stand by his customer (the fitter). The only issue I think I'll still have is that the fitter is pointing blame at the home builder and the manufacturer might attempt to back that claim? ... I will try and contact them myself over the weekend though, at this point it can't hurt to try.

I've already contacted Trading Standards for advice who have told me that because I have been told what finish to expect, with no warnings or advisories on what pitfalls could occur, the fitter is obligated to make good on their claims or else offer a refund in part or full. I don't want to have to take that route, I'd really rather continue to try and resolve amicably but they're not leaving me with much choice at this time.

 

[dazlight]

Fball are one of the biggest manufactures of screeding compounds in the UK and have a great support team.
Used 1200 loads of times and have the odd pin holes now any then for reasons of -
Not primed enough.
Weather warm when mixing.
Concrete warm when screeding it.
Not spiked properly.
Screed out of date.

To be honest I water mix in a garage would of been better like Fball 300 , Ardex K39 or Uzin NC150.

 

[dazlight]

Sorry Mike
So they did 3 coats of primer at 4-1 then the 1st coat of 1200pro ?

 

[dazlight]

You sure he used stopgap 400? He should of used 500 micro

 

[Mike0287]

Hi Daz,

Thanks for your replies. To clarify, they did 1 coat of P131 primer at 4-1 followed by a coat of 1200 Pro in visit one. All told they were at my property for around 1hr including setting up and cleaning down. Loads of holes, I've attached some images to show you what I mean by "loads".

They then returned for visit 2 and put P131 at 4-1 down on the first layer of latex from the first visit, then another layer of 1200 on top of that. Again, loads of air bubbles came through and the fitter said he didn't know why it was happening. He got on to the FBall support team and they supplied him with some replacement bags of screed and I've been told they suggested that he use the 400.

They came back a few days later with the 400, put a layer of this down over the previous layer of 1200. I'm not sure if they used another layer of 131 at this point or whether they just went straight in with the 1200 again, but that's now what I'm left with, a final layer of the 1200 at the top, still full of holes.

I'm not in the trade and really know nothing about floor screeds apart from what I've been told by the fitter and what I've manged to Google since this all began, so I can't really comment on what they should have used ... they have otherwise told me that they have used this method of 131 and 1200 many times with no issue - certainly not to the extent we've seen on my garage floor.

Thanks,

Mike

Edit - These photos are taken after the first visit, though there are fewer holes towards the middle, it still looks much the same around the edges of the room.

 

[dazlight]

Yeah seen it a lot mike. I’d take a guess at the concrete was very porous and maybe needed 2 of 3 coats of primer. We did one a while ago and sand and cement screed was dusty and loose.
Primed 8-1 , then a 4-1 coat then 2-1 then screed. When primer is t soaking right in then it’s ready.

Stopgap 400 is a rapid repair screed for big holes.
Stopgap 500 is for small holes, he should of rubbed floor down then used it

 

[Mike0287]

Have you had something like this happen to you as an installer? In that case what happened? Is the installer responsible for appropriate pre inspection and therefore makes good from their own pocket, or if it goes really wrong like this, does the customer receive a revised quote after the fact? I'll mention the Stopgap 500 when talking to the manufacturer and see if they can see whether they suggested the 400 or not ...

 

[dazlight]

It has yes then we do the micro screed if needed. This is on floors we are putting a covering on so not a issue.
On a garage floor we would use a water mix screed not a latex as it’s always a better finish. If they told you it would be a mirror finish they are in the wrong.

 

[dazlight]

E1467F9D-42BA-4846-9324-B65476E80D10

• dazlight
• 2 Nov 2018

39F7C58E-C8DE-4242-B1B7-F3ED9281CE5B

• dazlight
• 2 Nov 2018

Water mix screed I did the other day.