Advice re appliance sockets required

[ruddyr1]

Hi Im just planning a new fit for my kitchen and wish to fit the following appliances, an am wondering what type of sockets I will be required to fit for each appliance.
At present there are numerous normal plug sockets along the wall and one fixed socket that the current stand alone cooker is directly wired into.

Siemens iQ 500
Flush fit touch control induction hob EH601FE17E
Electrical connection rating (W)7,200 W
Voltage (V)220-240 V
Length electrical supply cord (m)110.0 cm

Siemens iQ 500
compact45 multi-function oven with microwave HB84K552B

Maximum micro-wave power (W)900 W
Grill power (W)2,680 W
Connection Rating (W)3600 W
Current (A)16 A
Voltage (V)230-240 V
Length electrical supply cord (m)180.0 cm
Plug type Fixed connection

Siemens iQ 500 Built-in single multi-function activeClean oven
HB75GB550B
Electrical connection rating (W)3,650 W
Current (A)16 A
Voltage (V)220-240 V
Frequency (Hz)50; 60 Hz
Length electrical supply cord (m)150.0 cm

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[ericmark]

Although you can get 16A and 32A blue ISO plugs these are rather ugly and only really used in a commercial kitchen.

So the induction hob likely best is to use a cooker connection unit and hard wire.

As to others as over 3kW the 13A plug is no good neither is a fused connection unit so each will need a dedicated supply from the consumer unit.

However if you really want to be able to unplug you could use 15A round pin plugs and sockets which look neater than the 16A plugs.

 

[mikeyd]

Is your existing cooker really connected using a socket? (as you also say it is directly wired to it)

Ideally, you would install 3 separate circuits.

However if both new ovens will be next to each other then they could share a circuit. IF (and don't assume it is) your existing cooker connection is a 'standard' 32A dedicated cooker circuit wired with 6mm cable then you could use it for either the hob or both ovens. To connect both ovens on this one circuit your electrician would need to install a dual output cooker plate (such as this http://www.alertelectrical.com/prod/1022/click-45a-easyfit-dual-appliance-outlet-plate-prw217 )

That still leaves you needing at least one other new circuit installed.

I would suggest you get an electrician round early to explain your options, you will need one anyway to do the wiring.

 

[ruddyr1]

So are you saying that I need to add new wiring for each of the ovens from the consumer unit and that the unit has to have additional dedicated fuse? Jeeze thats going to be a right pain!

Is there absolutely no way around it?

I have an emersion heater supply that is unused that goes into a 6 switch face plate , Ie dishwasher fridge washing machine etc. Could I use that supply for the hob and then use the two ovens from the fixed oven point already in place.

Also the ISO plugs, could I link them into the current wiring and simply hide them from view if ugly?


Oh and yes the present oven is hard wired into a plate behind the oven, no plug, but there is a big red switch on the back wall to the side of the oven that switches the power off and on.

 

[JohnW2]

Ideally, you would install 3 separate circuits. ... However if both new ovens will be next to each other then they could share a circuit. IF (and don't assume it is) your existing cooker connection is a 'standard' 32A dedicated cooker circuit wired with 6mm cable then you could use it for either the hob or both ovens. ... That still leaves you needing at least one other new circuit installed.

If one were happy to apply diversity across all three of these 'cooking appliances' combined (what do people think about that?), then all three could comfortably run off a 32A circuit (about 25A after diversity). As some of you know, I have my moments of discomfort about diversity (the guidelines for which have not changed in decades, despite changing appliances and cooking practices, but .....!

I would suggest you get an electrician round early to explain your options, you will need one anyway to do the wiring.

I'm sure that's the best advice.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

If one were happy to apply diversity across all three of these 'cooking appliances' combined (what do people think about that?), then all three could comfortably run off a 32A circuit (about 25A after diversity).

Yes and the cable would be oversized.

People seem to disbelieve the diversity rules for some reason even though in the past (virtually) all cookers with four plates and three elements would be on a 30A circuit.
The same circuits which are still there.

As some of you know, I have my moments of discomfort about diversity (the guidelines for which have not changed in decades, despite changing appliances

I would think that more efficient modern appliances would be more suitable for diversity.

and cooking practices,

Not too familiar with them.
Do you mean going out more or deliveries?

 

[mikeyd]

So are you saying that I need to add new wiring for each of the ovens from the consumer unit and that the unit has to have additional dedicated fuse? Jeeze thats going to be a right pain!

No, but you will need some new wiring, difficult to say how much without knowing if any of the new appliances are going to be near where the old cooker outlet is.

Is there absolutely no way around it?

I doubt it, but I can't see from here.

I have an emersion heater supply that is unused that goes into a 6 switch face plate , Ie dishwasher fridge washing machine etc. Could I use that supply for the hob and then use the two ovens from the fixed oven point already in place.

Again, I doubt it. Too little information but if it is and old Immersion heater circuit then it might just be a 15A radial on 2.5mm cable which will be nowhere near good enough for a 7.5kW hob. But (again) I can't see it and it's no good assuming things.

To be honest, the cost of getting the wiring right now will pay off in the end. When I did our kitchen up about 6 years ago we put in a NEFF induction hob and double oven of similar spec yo yours (Before I had kids I had cash). When I ripped out the old 32A cooker circuit to replace with 2 new 10mm circuits we found junction boxes in the ceiling above both the consumer unit and oven connecting the newish looking 6mm cable to old rubber cable. presumably whoever had fitted the kitchen before us took some shortcuts.

Also the ISO plugs, could I link them into the current wiring and simply hide them from view if ugly?

I think the reply about plugs was a reply to you originally asking if you could plug everything into sockets. I don't think you meant that but that is the way it read.

Oh and yes the present oven is hard wired into a plate behind the oven, no plug, but there is a big red switch on the back wall to the side of the oven that switches the power off and on.

Chances are then, that it could supply the ovens or the hob, but it all needs a good look at before you commit to anything.

 

[mikeyd]

Ideally, you would install 3 separate circuits. ... However if both new ovens will be next to each other then they could share a circuit. IF (and don't assume it is) your existing cooker connection is a 'standard' 32A dedicated cooker circuit wired with 6mm cable then you could use it for either the hob or both ovens. ... That still leaves you needing at least one other new circuit installed.

If one were happy to apply diversity across all three of these 'cooking appliances' combined (what do people think about that?), then all three could comfortably run off a 32A circuit

True. Then again, for all we know, one oven is on the wall opposite the existing outlet, the hob is on a new island, the consumer unit is a wooden Wylex in the loft.....

 

[JohnW2]

If one were happy to apply diversity across all three of these 'cooking appliances' combined (what do people think about that?), then all three could comfortably run off a 32A circuit (about 25A after diversity).

Yes and the cable would be oversized.

Indeed.

As some of you know, I have my moments of discomfort about diversity (the guidelines for which have not changed in decades, despite changing appliances .... and cooking practices

I would think that more efficient modern appliances would be more suitable for diversity.

That's probably very true on a 'per appliance' basis, and I have no 'discomfort' in applying traditional diversity calculations at the level of an individual appliance (or even a single oven+hob combination). It's when we start talking about multiple ovens (sometimes multiple cookers), plus a microwave, as well as a hob, that I start wondering a bit - since I would have thought that it's far more likely that all elements etc. in multiple independent ovens/microwaves will be 'on' simultaneously than if they were component parts of a single 'cooker'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

If one were happy to apply diversity across all three of these 'cooking appliances' combined (what do people think about that?), then all three could comfortably run off a 32A circuit

True. Then again, for all we know, one oven is on the wall opposite the existing outlet, the hob is on a new island, the consumer unit is a wooden Wylex in the loft.....

... hence some of the reason for my 'discomfort'. However, as I understand it, many/most electricians are happy to apply traditional diversity calculations across a pile of 'cooking appliances', considered as a 'job lot', in the manner I suggested.

In fact, even if one applied diversity separately to each of the OP's three appliances, the total (after diversity) would only be 39A, so all three would be OK on a single 40A circuit.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

That's probably very true on a 'per appliance' basis, and I have no 'discomfort' in applying traditional diversity calculations at the level of an individual appliance (or even a single oven+hob combination). It's when we start talking about multiple ovens (sometimes multiple cookers), plus a microwave, as well as a hob, that I start wondering a bit - since I would have thought that it's far more likely that all elements etc. in multiple independent ovens/microwaves will be 'on' simultaneously than if they were component parts of a single 'cooker'.

Aren't multiple appliances just divided single appliances if the total loads are the same?

 

[ruddyr1]

Thanks for all the replies.

The present cooker is a creda concept solar plus, that has two ovens and and a ceramic hob and is a stand alone unit with a total load plate 11.3 KW. Its wired directly into an oven outlet plate on the wall at the rear of the oven. the new hob will be more or less in the same location and the 2 ovens will be one above the other within 1.5m of the outlet plate.

The consumer unit is in the garage on the other side of the house. It has a dedicated fuse number 1 with a sticker Oven & Hob, which does indeed switch off the cooker.

Wiring will have to go up into the ceiling through the whole house to the opposite side. Lifting floor boards in two bedrooms and a bathroom. So I guess unless there is a safe option using current wiring then I ll have to find ovens that plug in.

 

[OwainDIYer]

If one were happy to apply diversity across all three of these 'cooking appliances' combined (what do people think about that?), then all three could comfortably run off a 32A circuit (about 25A after diversity).

The manufacturer's instructions state that the hob requires an

Electrical connection rating (W)7,200 W

so that is what must be provided after any allowance for diversity is made.

The ovens both require a

16A supply

so again that is what must be provided, no greater and no less.

Typical instructions intended for Continental practice, but nonetheless they must (mandatory) be followed - I don't think the Amendment to the Regulations saying they SHOULD (advisory) be followed is out yet?

 

[JohnW2]

Typical instructions intended for Continental practice, but nonetheless they must (mandatory) be followed - I don't think the Amendment to the Regulations saying they SHOULD (advisory) be followed is out yet?

No - you have to wait until next year for that. However, when it happens, if they stick to the draft wording, it will not even say "...SHOULD (advisory) be followed" ... merely that the MIs should be 'taken into account', or something like that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Aren't multiple appliances just divided single appliances if the total loads are the same?

Not quite - that was my point. If one has, say, 6 elements spread across three appliances, I would suspect that it is, in practice, statistically more likely that more will be 'on' simultaneously than if one had 6 elements in one appliance.

If you're talking about 'mega-appliances', which are effectively multiple separate appliances 'joined together', maybe in a common casing, then I would probably have similar 'discomforts'.

One thing I forgot to ask (not a trick question - I genuinely want to know your opinion) ... do you feel it is appropriate to use a diversity calculation to argue that a 3,600W cooking appliance can be connected with a 13A plug/socket (or 13A FCU)?

Kind Regards, John