Advice re loft conversion...

[bpowell555]

I have a grade II listed terrace where the previous owner but one (7 years+) did a partial (?) loft conversion. I don't think they changed the joists (4 inch - only small say 12m square floor space) but layed down a chipboard floor; plaster board under the rafters; central heating (boiler and water tank are up there too); velux; light and two power points. There is a steep staircase/ladder from the second bedroom downstairs. Its all painted, finished and carpetted. I've got the computer up there...

What is the likely situation here? Should I use it as habitable or not? I'm slightly concerned about the insurance situation. I was thinking it would be good to investigate the prospect of selling as a 3 bed but I'm concerned about approaching BCO for fear they'll tell me to rip the whole lot out!!!

Apart from that I'd like to run a more substantial staircase through the second bed to the landing, dividing it off with a stud wall and closing fire door. I thought that would be enough but what's this about all existing rooms requiring self closing doors; mains smoke alarms?!

Some pointers would be much appreciated.

Thanks - its a great forum!!!

 

[masona]

What is the likely situation here? Should I use it as habitable or not? I'm slightly concerned about the insurance situation. I was thinking it would be good to investigate the prospect of selling as a 3 bed but I'm concerned about approaching BCO for fear they'll tell me to rip the whole lot out!!!

To be honest I don't think you have much choice as it could be unsafe as the 4" joists is not big enough. I can't tell the legal side of it but a lot depend how the estate agent advertised your property when you brought it. I just wish the solictor's do their job properly because you wouldn't have this problem.

 

[bpowell555]

We have an indemnity as they couldn't supply planning docs for the conversion or the extension at the back.

So 4 inch is only good for storage? How do I approach the BOC given the fear of them asking me to change it / what happens should I need to call the insurance... what to do first??

Since how long has the requirement been for 6 inch plus joists?

Cheers

 

[jbonding]

i dont think theres a requirement for six inch joists it all depends on the size and weight up there. the floor isnt the only problem, there needs to be adiquate fire escape, insulation, electrical certificates, smoke alarms and many more things, but most importantly what has been removed to make the space in the loft ie supports for the roof. you will have to contact someone probably start with BCO, you wont be able to brush it under the carpet it might not be safe and you will probably have problems when you come to sell.

 

[masona]

Architect or a building surveyor can help you without involving the BCO to see if it's safe.

 

[bpowell555]

Can I get a building surveyor from the Yellow Pages? Will they all generally say the same thing and not report me to the feds if they find something remiss?

Thanks for the help guys.

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Re 4 inch joists, its not a big loft. I had a builder come round and he's a big fella. It passed his "doesn't bounce when I jump on it test" which would suggest some stability. I guess max span is 2.5-3 metres,

MOD

please see 10a

 

[masona]

Re 4 inch joists, its not a big loft. I had a builder come round and he's a big fella. It passed his "doesn't bounce when I jump on it test" which would suggest some stability. I guess max span is 2.5-3 metres,

You maybe okay then, building surveyor will advise you more. I have 2 surveyor friend and they don't report it unless it's dangerous or the owner won't do anything about it.

 

[bpowell555]

Well, maybe I'll ask that same builder if he knows a good surveyor. Cheers for the tip. It seems the only way I can get out of this mine field!



ps. I'm not used to such hot moderators - its a bit scary

 

[gazza2]

But then of course there is the indemnity

if its going to be used as habitable, and theres no planning stuff provided, and it was sold as habitable, then its got to be worth

1) getting the LABC involved, if they decree it unsafe/unlawful ( which they might not) , then ask whats wrong ( it might just need retrospective permission) and after 7 years thats usually a formality.
2) based on 1 above - approach your solicitor, and provide all the facts to them ( they me have wrongly advised you ) and will either sort it for free, or advise how to claim against the indemnity.
3) check that it has not been "missold" by the estage agent.

its advisable to do this whilst the previous owners can still be traced

the upshot is , do this get it legal, and correct, it will add to the value of your house, and prevent YOU from having to either sort its out when you come to re-sell, or lose value, when its proven to be a problem.

as far as i can see you have nothing to lose ( and i bet if it fall through you wont be insured )

 

[bpowell555]

Can you really hold anything against an Estate Agent these days? FYI it was sold as 2/3 bedrooms...

Thanks for the reply!

MOD

just to say hello as for being hot we try

 

[gazza2]

if it was sold as 2/3 bedrooms, i think it would have to have a permanent
access to the third bedroom, yet it sounds like you have a loft ladder ?

it does sound like you need to get it properly checked, I would ring LABC
and get their view, remember as you have the indemnity you should be able to get it sorted for free, and if not then it sound like it was misssold, and there should be some comeback, under the property misdescriptions act !!

 

[bpowell555]

Its not a ladder in that it is fixed but its very steep with limited clearance for your head at the bottom. Perhaps that's a ladder - I don't know. I was dubious that you could call it a bedroom when we bought it but I hadn't worked out the complications of having it checked etc. I figured building regs would specify a fire proof door and decent stairs at least. I wasn't aware of any insurance ramifications. If the indemnity does cover this sort of thing then perhaps I should talk to the solicitors who advised us.

What was the price of a letter again ......

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Thought I should check the LABC site and having had a look at Part B (Fire Safety) I'm slightly encouraged. I'll check the location of the window tonight re egress. The house is so small I think the stairs (fixed ladder) and escape points might be ok.

I still need to have the floor checked - 30 minutes cover and structural support. Plus I think at least I need a linked fire alarm system...

The research continues

The slate will need replacing soon. Perhaps if there are only a few jobs required to bring it up to standard then would be a good time.

 

[trevormuk]

Before contacting LBAC check the indemnity policy terms and conditions. In some cases the policy is null and void if you make an approach to LBAC, and they subsequently require changes etc. Or even better get your solicitor to advise you.

HTH

 

[bpowell555]

All good advice.

Cheers!

 

[masona]

Its not a ladder in that it is fixed but its very steep with limited clearance for your head at the bottom.

This may not be within the building regulations but can't say without looking at it. If you haven't got the room for the correct angle of the staircase then another way is a spiral staircase which goes straight up.