Ok so here's the story...
We are remodeling a room and needed to remove a radiator.
The system has a cold water inlet (with manual override), an AMTROL FILL-TROL expansion tank (1) in basement near "American Air Purger" (2) and float type air vent (3). It feeds a Weil Mclain PCG/CG gas hot water boiler (4).
1. http://www.amtrol.com/filltrol.htm
2. http://www.americangranby.com/itemDetail.asp?toLookup=446-2
3. http://www.radiantheat.net/equipment_air_vents
4. http://www.weil-mclain.com/FTP/disc... CGM Series 6 Installation 550141370 877 .pdf
So I turned off the gas, turned off the electric, hooked a hose to the drain spigot at the base of the system and let the water empty into some unknown crevice in front of my house near a flowerbed. I opened the bleeder valves starting on the highest floor and working my way down until I was sure the water level was below the 2nd floor radiator we removed. Mind you the system "seemed to be working fine" before this project though I cannot tell you if the radiators were working as they were supposed too. This is an old house, new to me. I've haven't dealt with a gas hot water boiler system in more than a few years. Starting on the third (not the fourth... baseboard there no radiator) I definitely heard the system sucking wind as it drained. I hear this sound first on the third floor.
We removed the radiator and disconnected the pipes back to a "t-joint" and plugged each pipe using a screw-in cap wrapped in teflon. I don't think the radiator was in series, it was not part of the original system and seems to have been placed in parallel with a radiator further down the hall. Likely part of a previous renovation, one we are now trying to reverse. This small radiator had an inlet and an outlet, each running through a t-joint into another longer pipe. I am assuming this longer pipe ran from the feed and return in the basement to a radiator that is another 15 feet away from the vertical run. So it's not in series, right? That's a non-issue right?
Attempt to re-fill:
--------------------
So I closed the drain valve at the bottom of the house and opened the manual override on the cold eater feed. I started at the front of the house and bleed each radiator (I kind of think I have 3 separate vertical runs (could they be zones this system is old) feeding the "front, middle and rear" of each floor respectively). I first heard water and then the water came squirting out. I closed the bleeder and moved to the next room.
First floor went as expected. The second floor took a while to fill but eventually the shorter radiators showed signs they were full and eventually the taller radiators hit the same level.
The second floor radiators only trickle, not like the first floor. But on the third floor I hear no escaping air, not gurgling, no noise at all. After giving up for the night I left one two caps open all night long.
The pressure meter on the boiler reads 10-11psi (maybe 12 the expected number) but I am fairly certain I have no water in the radiators on the third and fourth floor.
I'm afraid to light the boiler because I know the system is not full of water. But again, I'm not sure it was "full" when I started this adventure. The radiators upstairs never seemed particularly hot over the last months. Bought the house last fall, so I don't have any history to compare.
1) Is it safe to fire up the boiler?
Can I fire up the boiler and then bleed the upper floors?
2) If it isn't safe, why don't I have pressure at the upper floors?
The boiler's gauge reads 10-11psi, maybe 12, which is the number I expect given the system is cold. I even tried the circulator for a while, but I didn't want to burn it out. I turned the circulator off when it had no effect.
I have plenty of regular water pressure on the third and fourth floor. I imagine the pressure is the same for the boilers cold water inlet, so the system should certainly be able to fill itself.
3) Do I have a blockage?
The air bleed screw in one radiator on the third floor definitely seems to be dry, not like the screws from the second and first floor radiators.
If I had a blockage before shouldn't I have heard something? Some noise when the heat was running?
Or, is the problem where my repair is? Am I required to re-connect the inlet and outflow pipes together where the old radiator had been, is that my problem? The disconnected radiator was definitely connected to a larger system through two t-joints.
If I leave all the radiators closed throughout the house and wait many hours, then open a bleed screw on the third floor i can hear a little bit of gas escape. Maybe 10 seconds worth, maybe five. Then back to nothing.
How do the valves work on the radiators? Is it counterclockwise to open?
I think I opened them all. I deliberately turned them counterclockwise to full. Except three to hard to move. For now I've left them all in the middle. Surely enough to allow the water through.
What's up with that? Where's the water?
We are remodeling a room and needed to remove a radiator.
The system has a cold water inlet (with manual override), an AMTROL FILL-TROL expansion tank (1) in basement near "American Air Purger" (2) and float type air vent (3). It feeds a Weil Mclain PCG/CG gas hot water boiler (4).
1. http://www.amtrol.com/filltrol.htm
2. http://www.americangranby.com/itemDetail.asp?toLookup=446-2
3. http://www.radiantheat.net/equipment_air_vents
4. http://www.weil-mclain.com/FTP/disc... CGM Series 6 Installation 550141370 877 .pdf
So I turned off the gas, turned off the electric, hooked a hose to the drain spigot at the base of the system and let the water empty into some unknown crevice in front of my house near a flowerbed. I opened the bleeder valves starting on the highest floor and working my way down until I was sure the water level was below the 2nd floor radiator we removed. Mind you the system "seemed to be working fine" before this project though I cannot tell you if the radiators were working as they were supposed too. This is an old house, new to me. I've haven't dealt with a gas hot water boiler system in more than a few years. Starting on the third (not the fourth... baseboard there no radiator) I definitely heard the system sucking wind as it drained. I hear this sound first on the third floor.
We removed the radiator and disconnected the pipes back to a "t-joint" and plugged each pipe using a screw-in cap wrapped in teflon. I don't think the radiator was in series, it was not part of the original system and seems to have been placed in parallel with a radiator further down the hall. Likely part of a previous renovation, one we are now trying to reverse. This small radiator had an inlet and an outlet, each running through a t-joint into another longer pipe. I am assuming this longer pipe ran from the feed and return in the basement to a radiator that is another 15 feet away from the vertical run. So it's not in series, right? That's a non-issue right?
Attempt to re-fill:
--------------------
So I closed the drain valve at the bottom of the house and opened the manual override on the cold eater feed. I started at the front of the house and bleed each radiator (I kind of think I have 3 separate vertical runs (could they be zones this system is old) feeding the "front, middle and rear" of each floor respectively). I first heard water and then the water came squirting out. I closed the bleeder and moved to the next room.
First floor went as expected. The second floor took a while to fill but eventually the shorter radiators showed signs they were full and eventually the taller radiators hit the same level.
The second floor radiators only trickle, not like the first floor. But on the third floor I hear no escaping air, not gurgling, no noise at all. After giving up for the night I left one two caps open all night long.
The pressure meter on the boiler reads 10-11psi (maybe 12 the expected number) but I am fairly certain I have no water in the radiators on the third and fourth floor.
I'm afraid to light the boiler because I know the system is not full of water. But again, I'm not sure it was "full" when I started this adventure. The radiators upstairs never seemed particularly hot over the last months. Bought the house last fall, so I don't have any history to compare.
1) Is it safe to fire up the boiler?
Can I fire up the boiler and then bleed the upper floors?
2) If it isn't safe, why don't I have pressure at the upper floors?
The boiler's gauge reads 10-11psi, maybe 12, which is the number I expect given the system is cold. I even tried the circulator for a while, but I didn't want to burn it out. I turned the circulator off when it had no effect.
I have plenty of regular water pressure on the third and fourth floor. I imagine the pressure is the same for the boilers cold water inlet, so the system should certainly be able to fill itself.
3) Do I have a blockage?
The air bleed screw in one radiator on the third floor definitely seems to be dry, not like the screws from the second and first floor radiators.
If I had a blockage before shouldn't I have heard something? Some noise when the heat was running?
Or, is the problem where my repair is? Am I required to re-connect the inlet and outflow pipes together where the old radiator had been, is that my problem? The disconnected radiator was definitely connected to a larger system through two t-joints.
If I leave all the radiators closed throughout the house and wait many hours, then open a bleed screw on the third floor i can hear a little bit of gas escape. Maybe 10 seconds worth, maybe five. Then back to nothing.
How do the valves work on the radiators? Is it counterclockwise to open?
I think I opened them all. I deliberately turned them counterclockwise to full. Except three to hard to move. For now I've left them all in the middle. Surely enough to allow the water through.
What's up with that? Where's the water?
