Air

[boxster]

I have installed hundreds of boilers for my company but contracted a few plumbers to install a boiler replacement on a gravity system as i had lots of work on. NEVER AGAIN!

I have not been to the job but i know the boiler has been replaced and the customer vents the up stairs radiators every few days for a few seconds. He says it is air. The pump was just put back on the old pipe on the return pumping INTO the boiler. It was fine before the boiler was replaced. It cant be a leak or sludge. Maybe hydro? i dont know. I am going on monday so any ideas. No hibertor was put in as the price didnt included it, its normally a waste of time anyway. Has anyone got any ideas of what it could be. Also as soon as he vents the raidators they are fine for a few days then the top runs cold. Upstairs only. it sounds like a basic problem of air getting sucked in and i dont think auto air vents were on. Anyways post your ideas.

We normally just repair gas boilers and fires and install 99% combi and bbus but very rearly install standard gravity boilers. The boiler is a kingfisher... potterton kingfisher! RS

 

[oilman]

No hibertor was put in as the price didnt included it, its normally a waste of time anyway.

Why is a waste of time? from what I've seen water do to steel, this doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[boxster]

Not so much a waste of time, only most of the customers expect miricles and moan about charges. Inhibitor will work but some customers do not want it after silly press realeases about dangerous chemicals. Load of cr*p but still. Back to the problem tho, I dont think inhib will fix it as it was fine before the boiler was installed

 

[Potterton Man]

Personally I would never re fill a system with out adding an inhibitor and probably two bottles at that. What you need to look at is the positioning of the open vent and cold feed on the system its good practice these days to always have pump on the flow. Also it is not now possible to install boilers on to a Gravity system as per part l of new building regulations it needs to be converted to fully pumped

 

[boxster]

this was just a replacement boiler. I dont think customers will folk out an extra £900 to convert to fully pumped. I will swap the pump over and put it on the flow. To be honest i always fit pumps on the return on kingfishers and profiles and never get any problems, however i dodnt fit this boiler but thanks for the advise!

 

[Potterton Man]

With out trying to be funny, it doesn’t really mater if the customer is willing to pay for a fully pumped system or not that’s all your meant to be quoting for when you fill out log book you have to tick a box stating that the system is fitted in accordance to manufactures instructions and also to building regulations. Use a glass under open vent pipe with system turned on to see weather system is drawing in air

Gas Engineer for 24 years 8 with British Gas 10 with Potterton 6 Self Employed

 

[boxster]

Well i havent seen the job yet but i will be there on monday so i will give it a go.

I get my corgi book through the post each month and nothing has told me about ripping out a gravity system and replacing with fully pumped on basic boiler changes. sorry but that sounds like stretching a job. I aint saying your doing that, but thats what people will think. I will continue installing boilers to gravity systems untill told otherwise. If from what you say is correct then why have an option on a boiler to reverse the stat? to fully or grav

 

[Potterton Man]

Kingfisher Mf was developed 10 Years ago Building Regs 2 years do a search for part L on net and contact them for details

 

[boxster]

the potteron kingfisher was first realesed around 8 years ago and my company were issued a kingfisher to install as a test boiler to replace the thorn. Unless your talking about the balanced flue then in that case your right. The rs came out about 8 years back and i have been fitting them for 8 years i have fitted over 500 of them and never had any problems apart from a damp rising up and shorting the gas valve lol but i am sure you remember that, it must of cost potterton millions.....
I have installed kingfisher boilers to grav and pumped system with little or no trouble. Oh i remember those kingfisher pipes that attach on the back of the boiler they kept busting.. it was common for us to solder a 2p peice on the back to stop it blowing, its been sorted now though they are bends....

you cant beat a kingfisher i love im!

 

[Potterton Man]

No I said they were developed 10 years ago not realised for sale I worked for potterton for 10 plus years

 

[boxster]

oh i misunderstood you

 

[ChrisR]

Why do you discount a leak - of air, in, on the input side of the pump? Microleak variety which may not let water out. Quite often the pump unions. For the benefit of our reader, the pressure on the input side of a pump on the return of a vented system can go well below atmospheric pressure, so air gets sucked in.

 

[boxster]

good point chris

 

[oilman]

I get my corgi book through the post each month and nothing has told me about ripping out a gravity system and replacing with fully pumped on basic boiler changes. sorry but that sounds like stretching a job. I aint saying your doing that, but thats what people will think. I will continue installing boilers to gravity systems untill told otherwise. If from what you say is correct then why have an option on a boiler to reverse the stat? to fully or grav

This is a starting place. It's the CHeSS GIL059 document that gives the acceptable options. Afraid it is not stretching a job, and technically if you don't do it, it's an offence (so I'm off to prison soon ). You could possibly upgrade the gravity HW and show willing by adding a tank stat to control a 28mm 2-port valve. This isn't pumped, but it will stop heat waste by shutting the HW loop when the tank is hot enough. Nobody is likely to check, but the customer will use less fuel, so if they don't move too soon, they'll get their money back.

I try to do these mods in stages, a new boiler is enough of a shock for most people, so doing the HW changes later is more palatable.

 

[boxster]

yer i see what you mean, however i will just pass the number of a plumber on and maybe get the customer to sign a form saying they will get it done within 2 weeks. I dont do plumbing as such, just fit boilers, fires ect.. and repair them, servcie them but no plumbing like baths and toilets ect.. i promised myself when i became self employed i would never do that stuff again. however there is enough work for me what i do. I dont need to get involved in fully pumped change overs although fun to do its really not my cup of tea. I will only do that for someone if a friend or family.