Am I being unreasonable asking my electrician for this information?

[PotatoSoup]

Please can an electrician tell me if I'm making an unreasonable request? I had an electrician come and install a new ring main around my kitchen. I want to know where the ring main cables are installed. The electrician’s boss is saying the electrician who did the install is too busy to tell me. He's not free until March, by which time I'm not convinced he'll remember. I can bring down the ceilings (I've not plastered yet) and insulation to try and work it out but that would be a really frustrating thing to have to do. Am I being unreasonable by asking where he's run the cables? I want to know for various reasons including being able to make life easier for future electricians given I'll want this ring extending into the conservatory at some point. Also, as a DIYer, I just want to know where the cables in my house are. I'm feeling very frustrated with my electrician's boss but I'm aware that people don't always understand the technical side of other people's jobs so it's easy to make an unreasonable request without meaning to - is that what I'm doing? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you

 

[ericmark]

When working on the build of Sizewell 'B' I had to follow detailed plans, and if some error resulted in not being able to follow them, I would need to wait until new plans drawn up.

But in domestic it was known as house bashing, as very little electrical skills where required, but skills in making good work was more important, and I remember doing a second fix, when normal electrician was ill, and I had clearly missed out a socket, new build so went into next door to see where it likely was, and had to guess where to knock holes in the plaster to find it.

In 2004 with Part P the game started to change, with installation certificates, but domestic has always been lacking in paperwork. Hence why we have permitted routes, the placing of sockets and switches should tell us where the wires run, but today the smart phone with camera has changed what is being done, now common for people to take pictures, in the main in case they forget where the run.

But once installed near impossible to trace, I have a cable red. yellow, blue one end and brown, black grey the other so clearly a joint, but no idea where, there are injectors and cable tracers to find cables, but expensive, and even in the roads, we see the use of CAT cable detectors as plans are that bad.

It may be that domestic should follow same rules as commercial, but also they should charge same price, back in 1986 I know my time charged to client at £25 per hour, I did not get anywhere near that, but commercial electricians are very likely today charged out at £75 to £100 per hour, do you really want to pay those rates? If you want a plan you should ask before the job, not after.

 

[PotatoSoup]

Thank you for your quick response and all the info. I'd definitely have paid for a plan to not be in this situation now!! I'll take your advice going forward and ensure that a plan is part of any future work. How depressing. I'll mentally brace myself to start pulling the ceilings down then.

 

[PotatoSoup]

... Oh, and taking photos is a brilliant idea. (*Throws head back, pulls on hair and cries "why didn't I think of that!!?*)

I'm still frustrated but at least I know what to do to in order not be in this position in the future.

Thanks ericmark!! I appreciate it

 

[big-all]

would vertical or horizontal from any socket switch or other visible fitting not give a good clue in most locationns ??

 

[RandomGrinch]

As @big-all , cables 'should' run in 'prescribed zones'...

A cable detector may also help....

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/6195816

 

[ebee]

I once did a job with a couple of plumbing/heating chaps which meant adding a few sockets to a kitchen.
The existing socket circuit was not too good to start with so I suggested a new circuit just for the new works.
The customers informed me thast the cooker circuit was redundant and would never ever be used for a cooker.
So I suggested that if that indeed was being the case I could make a "Lolliop Circuit" for the new works which would negate needing new cables right back to the consumer unit.
All well and good and that`s what was done.
Roll forwards a year or two the lady of the house rang me "I`ve got an electrician here and we want to have an electric cooker installed, can you remember where you cut the cable to feed this new circuit?"
I thought to myself - why would an "Electrician" be asking such a simple question? It is not difficult to guess then verify before any alterations. I also thought - Why not aslk me if I wanted to do the work. I decided it might well be a friend of a friend down the pub sort of stiuation.
I also thought - I bet if I charged you for that info you would be likely to protest and refuse!
So I answered "I actually can not remember".

Is it possible that you have offended the Boss in a similar way?

 

[Notch7]

Please can an electrician tell me if I'm making an unreasonable request? I had an electrician come and install a new ring main around my kitchen. I want to know where the ring main cables are installed. The electrician’s boss is saying the electrician who did the install is too busy to tell me. He's not free until March, by which time I'm not convinced he'll remember. I can bring down the ceilings (I've not plastered yet) and insulation to try and work it out but that would be a really frustrating thing to have to do. Am I being unreasonable by asking where he's run the cables? I want to know for various reasons including being able to make life easier for future electricians given I'll want this ring extending into the conservatory at some point. Also, as a DIYer, I just want to know where the cables in my house are. I'm feeling very frustrated with my electrician's boss but I'm aware that people don't always understand the technical side of other people's jobs so it's easy to make an unreasonable request without meaning to - is that what I'm doing? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you

Yes it is useful to have the information, but to be fair to the electrician, that is something you should have asked for before work commenced not after.

on domestic works you might be over thinking it. Provided you had a good electrician doing the work and assuming he followed all ”safe location” rules any future electrician will easily be able to work out the circuit design.

it would be no problem extending the ring into the conservatory, an electrician will be able to work out the existing ring by visual inspection and testing

It’s not often people need to screw into the ceiling so cables won’t be disturbed, in the walls you can work out where cables could be by following safe location rules. If you need to know for sure then unscrew the sockets (with power off at fuse box) and have a look

 

[Murdochcat]

Please can an electrician tell me if I'm making an unreasonable request? I had an electrician come and install a new ring main around my kitchen. I want to know where the ring main cables are installed. The electrician’s boss is saying the electrician who did the install is too busy to tell me. He's not free until March, by which time I'm not convinced he'll remember. I can bring down the ceilings (I've not plastered yet) and insulation to try and work it out but that would be a really frustrating thing to have to do. Am I being unreasonable by asking where he's run the cables? I want to know for various reasons including being able to make life easier for future electricians given I'll want this ring extending into the conservatory at some point. Also, as a DIYer, I just want to know where the cables in my house are. I'm feeling very frustrated with my electrician's boss but I'm aware that people don't always understand the technical side of other people's jobs so it's easy to make an unreasonable request without meaning to - is that what I'm doing? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you

Unusual request after the fact, bordering on the unreasonable.

If you knew that you would want to extend the ring into the conservatory, why not do it at the same time?

 

[blup]

Please can an electrician tell me if I'm making an unreasonable request? I had an electrician come and install a new ring main around my kitchen. I want to know where the ring main cables are installed. The electrician’s boss is saying the electrician who did the install is too busy to tell me. He's not free until March, by which time I'm not convinced he'll remember. I can bring down the ceilings (I've not plastered yet) and insulation to try and work it out but that would be a really frustrating thing to have to do. Am I being unreasonable by asking where he's run the cables? I want to know for various reasons including being able to make life easier for future electricians given I'll want this ring extending into the conservatory at some point. Also, as a DIYer, I just want to know where the cables in my house are. I'm feeling very frustrated with my electrician's boss but I'm aware that people don't always understand the technical side of other people's jobs so it's easy to make an unreasonable request without meaning to - is that what I'm doing? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you

You must have seen and noted where at least some of the work was done, there will be tell tale signs like replastered chases; if not, inspection of the back boxes will give clues whether the cable run is above or below (likely from above in a kitchen with solid floor), finally if you have sockets in the wall against the proposed conservatory, a sparkie will have no problems in extending the ring. So stop pestering the company or offer to pay for their time.

 

[sparkwright]

Can't you loosen the faceplates off and see which direction the cables go in?

That should give you a reasonable idea.

 

[333rocky333]

You mention ceilings so if theres another level above then he has had to drill joists, this is only permitted in certain areas of its span, maybe there a bit cagey in case there drilled incorrect and they think your asking to check up on there work

 

[securespark]

I got thr impression from the OP that it wasn't cables in the wall, but under the floor?

 

[Murdochcat]

I got thr impression from the OP that it wasn't cables in the wall, but under the floor?

Or more likely in the ceiling. They aren’t very clear at all

 

[cjcoffin]

Surely there are wall chases that give the game away? OP mentions taking ceiling down to check(!) so I would think it likely the wiring runs are a combination of
(a) horizontal between outlets if close together
(b) vertical from outlet to ceiling void and then horizontally, through joists if necessary.

A £10 pipe/wire detector is surely all that is needed in conjunction with removing faceplates. Though I think the boss is being a bit unreasonable, it can't need a site visit, a phone call with the man who did the job is surely adequate and would take all of 5 mins. Perhaps they have something to hide, as upthread he might have notched the joists mid-span or run the wires diagonally up the wall.

Pics are very useful, when I rewired the kitched and it was stripped back to bare brick I have pictures of all the first fix wiring, including a conduit run for future outbuildings. Invaluable when it came to doing the later extension. I now wish I had also upgraded the garage supply to 4 sq mm for an EV charger and put in cabling for a battery system. But you cannot plan for every possibility.