Amateur Radio

[SUNRAY]

Yes, and about 14 years later than me. I suppose I was 'precocious' (maybe "sad" in today's parlance!), since I took both the RAE and Morse Test when I was 13, so as to enable me to get my licence on the earliest possible date - my 14th birthday, in August 1963. - and the RAE was certainly not multi-guess when I took it
Needless to say, there was no such thing as G8... in my day (everyone had to do the Morse Test) - so mine is G3S..

Kind Regards, John

If my little grey brain cell is correct the B license was introduced in early 1964.
Did you license actually start on, or did you have it for, your birthday? As I understand it my school mates got theirs a little after as the system was applications were dealt with on 'first come first served' basis, if an application got to the top of the pile and it was not ready (such as not reached 14) it stayed in the 'top pile' but not processed until the very top was completed. In other words if the top applicant birthday were June but yours is May, you had to wait for Junes to be processed (unless a helpful clerk did a sort I suspect).
In my case I asked for G6RAY but I was under another (G6RON I think) and I was told that by DTI as it then was, so settled for my initials.

The multi guess exam was introduced about 1980 for a 5 year experiment, if I'm honest I probably wouldn't have taken the original written exam. There were 90ish in the college class and I reckon about 25% failed one or both papers.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If my little grey brain cell is correct the B license was introduced in early 1964.

September 1964.

The multi guess exam was introduced about 1980 for a 5 year experiment, if I'm honest I probably wouldn't have taken the original written exam.

Me too, but the ticky box exam was introduced 1979, as two papers, Practical and Theory, later merged as one. I wasn't interested in Morse, my interests were digital, so for many years I resisted doing the RAE.

A/B were merged 26th July 2003, with the dropping of the Morse requirement.

 

[SUNRAY]

September 1964.

I haven't tried looking that date up but I recall raising a glass to the 40 year anniversary of the B license at a club meeting, due to a house move that would have been before mid May 2004. It is of course possible someone realised the year and we weren't actually on the birthday.

 

[JohnW2]

If my little grey brain cell is correct the B license was introduced in early 1964.

That sounds right, and Harry has confirmed it.

Did you license actually start on, or did you have it for, your birthday? As I understand it my school mates got theirs a little after as the system was applications were dealt with on 'first come first served' basis, if an application got to the top of the pile and it was not ready (such as not reached 14) it stayed in the 'top pile' but not processed until the very top was completed. In other words if the top applicant birthday were June but yours is May, you had to wait for Junes to be processed (unless a helpful clerk did a sort I suspect).

It actually started ON my birthday, and I'm not even sure that it was possible to apply before one's 14th birthday (but maybe one could).

I 'bypassed' any 'piles of applications' by travelling to London (to whatever they called themselves then) ON my birthday and had my application processed 'on the spot' on that day.

In my case I asked for G6RAY but I was under another (G6RON I think) and I was told that by DTI as it then was, so settled for my initials.

When I 'applied in person', I was given the choice between a block of 'current' callsigns. None had any particular 'personal' meaning for me, but I chose one which felt/sounded 'very nice' in Morse - 'rolls off the tongue/morse key' ) (which I'll reveal to you in PM!).

The multi guess exam was introduced about 1980 for a 5 year experiment, if I'm honest I probably wouldn't have taken the original written exam. There were 90ish in the college class and I reckon about 25% failed one or both papers.

As may be apparent from some of my posts here, 'brevity of writing' has never been one of my virtues, and I was one of the few (maybe the only) person in the room who had to ask for a 'continuation answer book' when I had filled up the first one (the same was usually true of school/uni exams, as well!).

Multi-guess exams started showing their face whilst I was at uni (but see **), and drive me totally mad. They really frustrate me and are completely alien to my 'verbose' approach to answering questions, and I so often feel a desperate need to 'qualify my ticks' with some prose comments ... but I had to increasingly put up with those frustrations as such exams became more prevalent by the time I had moved into the 'post-grad' phase of my education!

[ ** actually, on reflection, when I was doing my A-Level and S-Level exams at school (1966/7), some of us were actually paid for volunteering to subject ourselves, in parallel with the traditional exam, to also doing an MCQ one (I even forget which subject), as an experiment - so they were already considering the concept back then ]

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Multi-guess exams started showing their face whilst I was at uni (but see **), and drive me totally mad. They really frustrate me and are completely alien to my 'verbose' approach to answering questions, and I so often feel a desperate need to 'qualify my ticks' with some prose comments ... but I had to increasingly put up with those frustrations as such exams became more prevalent by the time I had moved into the 'post-grad' phase of my education!

Likewise here, but back in the day everything was handwritten and my handwriting was and still is shockingly poor. One reason being that I'm a natural left hander and I was forced at school to be right handed. I can sit and hand copy some pre-written text and make a fair job of it, but brain to page goes terribly wrong, my hand was simply. So I welcomed the ticky box exam papers. I remember I was first to finish both papers in the RAE exam, by quite a long margin.

 

[JohnW2]

Likewise here, but back in the day everything was handwritten and my handwriting was and still is shockingly poor.

Same here (unless I'm being very slow and careful, which I certainly would not be in an exam) - but that was the examiner's problem, not mine

One reason being that I'm a natural left hander and I was forced at school to be right handed. I can sit and hand copy some pre-written text and make a fair job of it, but brain to page goes terribly wrong ...

You have my sympathies. Fortunately, I think that is now all history, but there were generations of people born as left-handers who were 'forced' to try to become right-handed - and one of the consequences of that which is probably not widely known is that a fair proportion of them ended up with stutters - so I hope that didn't happen to you.

... So I welcomed the ticky box exam papers.

There will be definitely have to 'agree to disagree' - as I said, they did, and still would, 'drive me mad'.

Interestingly, in subsequent times I have sometimes had to help design MCQ exam questions. To do it conscientiously, such as to reduce as much as possible the issue s which frustrate me so much, is incredibly difficult. One has to try very hard to avoid situations in which the examinees will feel the need to add comments (which will be ignored) of the form "except ... ", "but ... ". That is particularly the case with those disciplines (like most I deal with) where very little is totally 'black and white', with almost every 'general truth' being qualified by at least some exceptions.

The worst of all MCQs, particularly in the early days, were ones which asked about what was "usual"/"common"/"normal" etc. in a particular situation - since one man's "common" could be another man's "uncommon"!

What has improved a lot is the sophistication of the (primarily automated) systems for weeding out 'bad' and/or 'badly worded' question sin MCQ exams, and I've been involved with some of that, too. At its simplest one compares results for each question with examinee's overall results (over all questions). If results ('correct' answers) for one question correlated fairly well with an examinee's results over all questions, then that question is 'accepted'. However, if individuals' results for a particular question showed little/no correlation with their 'overall' results, then that question is 'discarded'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Fortunately, I think that is now all history, but there were generations of people born as left-handers who were 'forced' to try to become right-handed - and one of the consequences of that which is probably not widely known is that a fair proportion of them ended up with stutters - so I hope that didn't happen to you.

No, no problem with that.

There will be definitely have to 'agree to disagree' - as I said, they did, and still would, 'drive me mad'.

Interestingly, in subsequent times I have sometimes had to help design MCQ exam questions. To do it conscientiously, such as to reduce as much as possible the issue s which frustrate me so much, is incredibly difficult. One has to try very hard to avoid situations in which the examinees will feel the need to add comments (which will be ignored) of the form "except ... ", "but ... ". That is particularly the case with those disciplines (like most I deal with) where very little is totally 'black and white', with almost every 'general truth' being qualified by at least some exceptions.

It's around 20 years since I last did a proper ticky box exam, but we were often told - there would be one ridiculous answer and three more sensible ones, only one of which was the correct one they were looking for. We were advised that even the correct answer was only the best answer, it never covered all possibilities.

 

[SUNRAY]

Likewise here, but back in the day everything was handwritten and my handwriting was and still is shockingly poor. One reason being that I'm a natural left hander and I was forced at school to be right handed. I can sit and hand copy some pre-written text and make a fair job of it, but brain to page goes terribly wrong, my hand was simply. So I welcomed the ticky box exam papers. I remember I was first to finish both papers in the RAE exam, by quite a long margin.

That's pretty much me too, however I refused to be converted to the point they tied left hand to the chair, I just produced pages and pages of meaningless gobbledy gook. As a result I had a fair bit of difficulty with direction of some characters (J e & y spring to mind) it wasn't helped that my seat in class almost had my back to the board:

Mr written work has always been terrible, both appearance and content, failed Engklish language 3 times, so for me multi guess was a big advantage.

I think I was also first to finish RAE too, it's certainly been common for it to be the case with me.
I've done the ECS a couple of times, it's a 30 minute test for 30 questions. First time, I did the whole thing, went right through it again, checked the time on the computer at 22 minutes, and through it again to see a couple or 3 minutes less. I sat there unable to leave wondering what all the others were still doing. I was one of 2 to get 100% most were around 75% and 2 failed. The sad thing is they supply a book containing 300 questions which each computer choses 30 psuedo random.

One guy I knew spent most of his time repairing hire plant so guess what answer he chose to: What do you do with a drill if the cable is damaged? Apparently you don't repair it...

What I've always hated with a vengence is not having the right answer provided, in my RAE there was a resonant frequency question and answers given being a factor of 10 and 100 above and below the right answer. The problem is it makes me doubt and then a similar question is so easy to make fit the wrong answers.

 

[JohnW2]

No, no problem with that.

I'm glad to hear that.

In case you're interested ... the problem is that we are nearly all born with one side of our brain (one cerebral hemisphere) which is 'dominant' but, to confuse everything, during embryonic/foetal development all the pathways from the brain to the body 'cross over'. Hence the majority of people are born with a dominant LEFT cerebral hemisphere, which means that they are 'right-handed' (in terms of hand, arms, legs, eyes etc.). However, we are also born with the 'speech centre' in (and only in) the dominant hemisphere.

If people born as 'left-handed' (dominant right hemisphere) are successfully 're-educated' to become 'right-handed', the brain will often try to switch the dominant hemisphere from right to left. That can leave the speech centre somewhat stranded or, worse, one can end up with speech centres in both hemispheres. The confusion that causes can lead to speech problems, most commonly 'stuttering'.

It's around 20 years since I last did a proper ticky box exam, but we were often told - there would be one ridiculous answer and three more sensible ones, only one of which was the correct one they were looking for. We were advised that even the correct answer was only the best answer, it never covered all possibilities.

That's not too bad when only a single answer is requested - since, as you say, one then simply goes for the one which sounds 'best'/'closest'. The problem arises when (as is quite common) multiple responses are allowed/requested. To give a hypothetical 'electrical' example ...

Q. Which of the following and commonly found in a UK domestic electrical installation (tick one or more answers):

1. 32A ring final circuits
2. 32A radial circuits
3. 20A radial circuits
4. 16A radial circuits
5. 6A radial circuits
6. None of above
7. All of the above

I suspect that most people would probably tick (1) and (5), and not tick (4), but whether one ticks (2) and (3) depends on one's view as to what is meant by "commonly".

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

That's pretty much me too, however I refused to be converted to the point they tied left hand to the chair,

They actually did that to me, my father went up to the school to complain, but it made no difference. That happened early, before I got to the writing stage and it delayed my learning from there on, quite a bit. I think I maybe became 'reluctant', as a result of the treatment, whereas I had begun school a little advanced of the rest.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If people born as 'left-handed' (dominant right hemisphere) are successfully 're-educated' to become 'right-handed', the brain will often try to switch the dominant hemisphere from right to left. That can leave the speech centre somewhat stranded or, worse, one can end up with speech centres in both hemispheres. The confusion that causes can lead to speech problems, most commonly 'stuttering'.

I didn't know that.

I think the only problem I have from the switch, apart from the hand writing, is a slight confusion between which is left and right. I tend to look around when picking up knives and forks, to remind me which hand each belongs in. Usefully, I was always able to work and use tools with either hand.

 

[Jackrae]

What I've always hated with a vengance is not having the right answer provided, in my RAE there was a resonant frequency question and answers given being a factor of 10 and 100 above and below the right answer. The problem is it makes me doubt and then a similar question is so easy to make fit the wrong answers.

The RSGB "Exam Secrets" booklet is good in that respect. It not only gives you the correct multi-choice answer but follows it with a paragraph explaining why it's the correct answer. Almost as good as a human tutor. Like many during lock-down I sat Foundation, Intermediate and Full. We might not be as well versed as those that sat their RAE and Morse but we are adding new blood to the hobby - just hope we don't balls it up.

 

[ericmark]

Today we have labels, dyslexic etc, in my day the label is just "he is thick" I found the RAE a pain, I already had a licence VP8XBHZ and VP8BKM but not direct reciprocal agreement, seems you could apply country by country and get a licence without doing the exam, but seemed simpler to do the exam, so GW7MGW was what I got, Hong Kong allowed you to select so VR2ZEP the Z I could do nothing about, my son followed me with GW7PVD but never kept it up.

I still have my UK licence, but although registered new address not used it in years. I have a duel band handy, but all it is ever used for is to listen into local heritage railway which is really out of band and likely illegal, although they are unlikely to complain and it is really a heath and safety issue so I know when a train is on the line I am working on.

 

[JohnW2]

I didn't know that.

If you're interested, I recently posted an 'explanation'!

I think the only problem I have from the switch, apart from the hand writing, is a slight confusion between which is left and right. ...

Although I've always been right-handed, I have had a life-long problem in remembering which is left and which is right. In fact, very many decades ago I failed my first driving test for that reason. The examiner told be to 'take the next turning on the right' and I got into a total tizz trying to find a road on the left to turn into - and thereafter, needless to say, 'everything went wrong'!

This was helped at all by the fact that, very many moons ago, I found myself studying anatomy - and virtually all illustrations, diagrams and photos in anatomy text books have "the right on the left", and vice versa!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Today we have labels, dyslexic etc, in my day the label is just "he is thick" ...

Indeed so. 'Enlightenment' about such things is one of the (perhaps few!) positive things to say about 'what has happened to the world' over the decades!

I still have my UK licence, but although registered new address not used it in years.

Same here. I hate to think of how many years (decades) it is since I've used mine! As well as all the other distractions of life, I think my interest started waning when it became increasingly a business of (expensive) commercial kit, rather than the home-brew stuff I was brought upon - whereupon my 'technical interest' started moving in other electronic (and, eventually, 'computing') directions..

Kind Regards, John