Ancient fusebox...??

[jhiker]

Hi,
First post in the 'leccy section and I could do with some advice please.
Here's my 'mains in', meter & fuse box. I'm guessing it's the original installation for the house, built in the 1960's, I think.
It's in a pantry off the kitchen and I've been living with it for the last 27 years.
I have a vague recollection of changing a wire fuse in that box on the RHS about twenty years ago but apart from that I've not touched it apart from changing a socket fascia or a light fitting. The house electrics seem sound - I don't have bulbs popping or fuses blowing all over the place. It's never been tested or inspected while I've had the house.
Early in the new year I'm having a new kitchen fitted - as part of the refit I may require some of the single sockets in the kitchen to be converted to doubles and I might want one or more of them moving by a foot or so to suit the proposed tiling. I'm not planning any additional wiring or sockets.
Any such work will be done by a qualified and competent person.
So.... this might be old but is it still acceptable?
Should I, at the very least, get that fuse box replaced with a modern (RCD) consumer unit?
Would a competent person legally be able to move a couple of sockets with the wiring as-is?
Is it possible to 'part re-wire' a house - i.e. rewire the kitchen only with a view to rewiring the rest of the house at a later date?
What's the white box between the meter and the metal fuse box?
I'd be grateful for any advice - many thanks.

Untitled

• jhiker
• 20 Nov 2013
• 1

Untitled

• jhiker
• 20 Nov 2013
• 1

 

[ericmark]

Mothers kitchen was done by fitting a mini consumer unit just for kitchen leaving rest of house untouched so yes can be done.

 

[JohnD]

the white box is a small Wylex Standard consumer unit (fusebox) which looks as if it supplies a singe circuit, perhaps an electric cooker or a shower. It is also obsolescent so worth replacing.

Neither of those items has RCD protection.

If you are having any rewiring done, get an electrician recommended by a friend or neighbour, not someone plucked from the yellow pages, and certainly not from a door to door flyer or a website.

Kitchen fitters are notorious for shoddy and non-compliant electrical and plumbing work, so you will have a better chance with a professional.

The tails to the meter look very old and would benefit from being replaced as well, and you are almost certain to need new main bonds "earth wires"

 

[Robin0577]

To expand a little on what Ericmark said....

All new wiring & alterations must be done to the current standards, so no, that fusebox will not be acceptable to supply the kitchen if the kitchen wiring is modified, the new sockets and moved wiring will require RCD protection.

There is no requirement to bring the rest of the house up to modern standards at the same time so fitting a small consumer unit just to supply the kitchen is a perfectly viable option.

However, if you have plans to rewire the whole hose in the not to distant future, then fitting a whole new consumer unit large enough to cater for that would probably be more economical. Be aware though, fitting a new CU to existing wiring can sometimes bring to light faults which the old fusebox could not detect, so it's advisable to have some proper testing carried out first

 

[JohnD]

or if (as I suspect) the house will need a comprehensive rewire in the near future, you could have a large modern CU fitted (a large one costs little extra as it is just a plastic box full of fresh air) and have all new or upgraded circuits moved to it as and when they are done, leaving the old stuff where it is until it is replaced and removed.

 

[Robin0577]

Good point John, that is another perfectly reasonable way of doing it which I failed to mention.

 

[sparkwright]

or if (as I suspect) the house will need a comprehensive rewire in the near future, you could have a large modern CU fitted (a large one costs little extra as it is just a plastic box full of fresh air) and have all new or upgraded circuits moved to it as and when they are done, leaving the old stuff where it is until it is replaced and removed.

Excellent idea, this is the way forward.

 

[JohnD]

<preens>

 

[securespark]

Knock 'im off 'is perch, someone, please....

 

[ricicle]

That Bill fusebox may contain asbestos flash pads.

 

[jhiker]

or if (as I suspect) the house will need a comprehensive rewire in the near future, you could have a large modern CU fitted (a large one costs little extra as it is just a plastic box full of fresh air) and have all new or upgraded circuits moved to it as and when they are done, leaving the old stuff where it is until it is replaced and removed.

Excellent idea, this is the way forward.

That does indeed appear to be the way forward. Thanks to all who replied.

This is all new to me so forgive me if these are daft questions....

If I were to go for a (larger) CU and only hang the kitchen cicuit onto it at this stage does the entire kitchen need to be rewired to comply with current regs or is it just any 'new' wiring involved in moving sockets, and/or installing additional ones.
To put it another way, if the current kitchen wiring was to remain undisturbed (frankly, this is unlikely) and it was 'sound' would it be compatible with a new CU?

Is such work notifiable to the Local Authority?

How, in fact, does an electrician check wiring for 'soundness' of wiring/circuits?

If the kitchen was to be rewired I'm wondering how much disturbance it might cause - would it involve chasing out the walls to replace the wiring - do you need access from the room above? Can you 'fish' the wires under the plaster?

I think the larger CU is probably the way to go - I'll have to consider the timing of it. Not sure whether to get it out of the way right now and make a best guess where to have the sockets or wait until nearer the kitchen install. Of course, it's possible the kitchen installer might be a competent and qualified spark

How long is it likely to take to rewire a 3mx3m kitchen having, say, eight sockets and switches and fit a CU - a couple of days - a week?
Cost would be daily rate + materials - is that right?

Any guidance much appreciated and thanks again.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If I were to go for a (larger) CU and only hang the kitchen cicuit onto it at this stage does the entire kitchen need to be rewired to comply with current regs or is it just any 'new' wiring involved in moving sockets, and/or installing additional ones.

As long as the existing wiring is OK, it won't need replacing.

To put it another way, if the current kitchen wiring was to remain undisturbed (frankly, this is unlikely) and it was 'sound' would it be compatible with a new CU?

Yes - CUs get replaced all the time without having to necessarily rewire.

Is such work notifiable to the Local Authority?

Consumer units are, and new circuits.

How, in fact, does an electrician check wiring for 'soundness' of wiring/circuits?

They have instruments for testing continuity, polarity, insulation resistance, fault loop impedance. The only thing they can't easily check are cable routes but if by chance they become aware of a non-compliance there then they would be expected to put it right.

If the kitchen was to be rewired I'm wondering how much disturbance it might cause - would it involve chasing out the walls to replace the wiring - do you need access from the room above? Can you 'fish' the wires under the plaster?

Well...

I might want one or more of them moving by a foot or so to suit the proposed tiling.

Depending on how the existing cables get to the sockets, chasing new routes might be needed for the moved ones. Or existing routes may need to be opened up to replace cables which are now too short.

Don't bank on there not being quite a lot of disruption to the walls.

I'm not planning any additional wiring or sockets.

You might as well - new kitchen, new tiling - seems daft to compromise for the sake of a little bit more work on the walls.

No additional wiring? You already have a cooker hood? A waste disposal unit? Are you changing to having a separate oven & hob? Built in microwave? Do you want accessible switches to isolate appliances? Main lighting changes? Separately controlled under-cabinet lights? Plinth lights? Might you like the fridge and freezer to be on a non-RCD circuit?

I think the larger CU is probably the way to go - I'll have to consider the timing of it. Not sure whether to get it out of the way right now and make a best guess where to have the sockets or wait until nearer the kitchen install.

Surely the best thing is to have the new CU put in at the same time as the kitchen electrics?

Of course, it's possible the kitchen installer might be a competent and qualified spark

Possible.

But unlikely. Are you using a self-employed fitter, or a service from the kitchen supplier?

How long is it likely to take to rewire a 3mx3m kitchen having, say, eight sockets and switches and fit a CU - a couple of days - a week?
Cost would be daily rate + materials - is that right?

Different people have different ways of charging. You need to get a few quotes, and suggestions for things you might not have thought about.

 

[JohnD]

. Of course, it's possible the kitchen installer might be a competent and qualified spark

there is a risk that such a person will be injured when a flying pig falls on his head.

 

[jhiker]

Thanks for the considered replies, it's all very helpful.
I will be using an independent fitter/builder not a kitchen supplier's team.
Is it usual to have a fridge/freezer combo on a non-rcd circuit?
I take your point about additional sockets and switches - I was clumsily trying to establish whether 'new' wiring could be added to 'old' wiring, and it seems it can, as long as it's sound.
Thanks for the insights and the suggestions.

 

[Iggifer]

a fridge/freezer on its own circuit is not necessarily the norm, but can be good to have it on a non-rcd circuit to prevent killing the f/f when another faulty appliance trips the rcd - the problem you have with this though is that if you don't notice that the f/f has taken out the mcb in the event of a fault, everything goes rank. If it's tripped out and your tv/kettle/lights don't work, you're gonna notice immediately.