Another Hive Q (sorry - should be simple!)

[James Sockett]

Another Hive question sorry!

I've searched the forums and can't find something quite like my question...

I have just got a Hive 2 heating (single) and installing on Ariston E-Combi Evo (with a mechanical clocker/timer)

This is what it looks like...

Is it as simple as connecting
1 to L
2 to N

3 & 5 to 1 & 3 on hive

Just curious about the loop from 2 to 3.

Also if I want to leave the mechanical clock/timer in do I just run cables from these cables to the hive unit and leave timer on always on?

Any other setup advice greatly appreciated.

Many thanks for any help in advance.

 

[stem]

Assuming that it is a 230V clock, I suspect that the black is the live as it supplies both the clock motor, and one side of the switch, via the link you refer to.

But check with a multimeter first to be sure. I can see why you would think red is live, but red hasn't been used as a live in the UK for decades [and AFAIK never has been in mainland Europe] Black on the other hand has.

However when installing Hive, usually the clock is left as it is with the wires in tact and left permanently 'on'. Then there will be terminals provided specifically for connecting external controls such as Hive to. However, if you have to open a room sealed part of the boiler on your particular model to access them it's not a DIY job and should only be done by a Gassafe engineer who can check that it's sealed up again properly afterwards.

 

[James Sockett]

Assuming that it is a 230V clock, I suspect that the black is the live as it supplies both the clock motor, and one side of the switch, via the link you refer to.

But check with a multimeter first to be sure. I can see why you would think red is live, but red hasn't been used as a live in the UK for decades [and AFAIK never has been in mainland Europe] Black on the other hand has.

However when installing Hive, usually the clock is left as it is with the wires in tact and left permanently 'on'. Then there will be terminals provided specifically for connecting external controls such as Hive to. However, if you have to open a room sealed part of the boiler on your particular model to access them it's not a DIY job and should only be done by a Gassafe engineer who can check that it's sealed up again properly afterwards.

@stem - thanks for your reply. Is there anyway of connecting the Hive up from the picture attached above by removing the clock and just replicating the wires on the clock to the Hive (by checking the live)

Thanks again

 

[stem]

I didn't recommend the way you suggested, because you will end up with wires going out of the boiler to the Hive connected to a flimsy connector on a PCB without any cable restraint, so you might want to consider how to secure the cable.

If you check the terminals to be absolutely sure that there is 230V N & L, and which way around it is connected. Then:

If Black is L = Hive L (Live), and add a loop to link also to Hive 1 (Common)
If Red is N = Hive N (Neutral)
Blue = Hive 3 (Heating on)

If you find a different result, post back.

There is another slight oddity, in that the switch symbol on the back of the timer appears to me that it is 'normally closed' (NC) [ie the electrical connection is made in the off state] and normally timers and thermostats use 'Normally Open' (NO). You will see on the Hive that the 'Heating on' connection is also marked 'NO'. It's unlikely, but if you find that the Hive works in reverse, ie 'on' is 'off' and vice versa, move the blue wire to terminal 2 'Heating off' (NC)

 

[ericmark]

First thing I would do before fitting a wall thermostat is to down load and read the installation instructions it seems the boiler is designed to use the ebus, so step one is to find out what thermostat will actually work with that boiler, it does not say OpenTherm so it may need a special?

The boiler is designed to use outside sensors, it also states "low voltage" I would expect it is really extra low voltage as it states "When connecting the boiler to an external cylinder do not run 240V cables and the cables for the TA1 together, use separate cables to prevent induced voltage on the low voltage switching circuit." which seems to indicate they are not the same voltage, I know in UK low voltage is 50 - 1000 volt AC but in USA what we call extra low voltage they call low voltage so would guess the thermostat uses 24 volt.

Also not 24 VDC marked on the time clock which also points to being extra low voltage.

I like the idea of Hive and the way the TRV heads use the "heat on demand" as to how well it works, I don't know, I was disappointed when I fitted Nest as Nest system of follow for the TRV heads did not work, so can't say if any system actually works unless tried and tested.

It would seem your boiler is specially designed to work with twin zones found with new builds, and has all the special options for outside temperature sensors and solar sensors, so I would say you need to do some enquiry before fitting Hive to find out if Hive is really suitable for your boiler.

 

[stem]

There are lots of voltages marked on the back of the clock 230V, 24v, 36v, 48v, 72v as well as DC & AC. But are not that clear (to me anyway). Which is why I asked the OP to check the voltage first. Some obviously refer to the ratings of the contact.

As there is a link between the contacts and the clock motor, they will both be using the same voltage, whatever it is. I can't ever remember seeing a mechanical clock that had a motor voltage other than 230V but a 24v motor would not be impossible.

Anyway we'll see what happens when @James Sockett posts back the voltage results.

Good point about the zones. As the Hive is a programmable thermostat the presence of any existing thermostat(s) is important. As the OP has only purchased one Hive, and hasn't mentioned any existing thermostat(s), so I assumed because he is asking about replacing the timeswitch that's the only control he has now. So James, if you do have an existing room thermostat, (or thermostats) please let us know.

personally, I would be surprised to find an old school mechanical timer fitted to a twin zone system, whilst not impossible, they normally have separate programmable thermostats, one for each zone.

 

[James Sockett]

There are lots of voltages marked on the back of the clock 230V, 24v, 36v, 48v, 72v as well as DC & AC. But are not that clear (to me anyway). Which is why I asked the OP to check the voltage first. Some obviously refer to the ratings of the contact.

As there is a link between the contacts and the clock motor, they will both be using the same voltage, whatever it is. I can't ever remember seeing a mechanical clock that had a motor voltage other than 230V but a 24v motor would not be impossible.

Anyway we'll see what happens when @James Sockett posts back the voltage results.

Good point about the zones. As the Hive is a programmable thermostat the presence of any existing thermostat(s) is important. As the OP has only purchased one Hive, and hasn't mentioned any existing thermostat(s), so I assumed because he is asking about replacing the timeswitch that's the only control he has now. So James, if you do have an existing room thermostat, (or thermostats) please let us know.

personally, I would be surprised to find an old school mechanical timer fitted to a twin zone system, whilst not impossible, they normally have separate programmable thermostats, one for each zone.

Thanks @stem @ericmark for your input. After doing a bit more research after you mentioned about there will be connectors on the PCB I found this forum post (https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/another-hive-2-installation.471846/) which is exactly the same boiler I use and the same setup by the looks of it so I was going to follow the instructions on there which makes sense to me.

The boiler is connected to a single wireless thermostat. If I follow the directions on the post above and just leave the existing mechanical clock on 'always on' will hive take over? Or can I just disconnect the clock internally?

Thanks again,

 

[stem]

In that case it should be simpler than that. As you want to install a new thermostat, you should have mentioned that you had an existing thermostat already. My bad for assuming that you hadn't got one.

So assuming that the existing thermostat receiver is not integral with the boiler, then all you need to do is simply swap the existing thermostat receiver for the Hive receiver and set the clock to be permanently on. Job done.

 

[ianmcd]

be very carefull your Hive switching will connect to TA1 on the boiler and this is a low voltage connection, do not put any links in at the hive receiver

 

[James Sockett]

be very carefull your Hive switching will connect to TA1 on the boiler and this is a low voltage connection, do not put any links in at the hive receiver

hi @ianmcd - thanks for you message - when you say links what do you mean?
Thanks

 

[ianmcd]

The hive single channel is volt free so if you are using 240V switching the wiring diagram will show using a link, dont or you will damage your boiler, L&N into the receiver and the two wires from TA1 in the boiler go to 1&3 on the hive do not link L and 1

 

[James Sockett]

The hive single channel is volt free so if you are using 240V switching the wiring diagram will show using a link, dont or you will damage your boiler, L&N into the receiver and the two wires from TA1 in the boiler go to 1&3 on the hive do not link L and 1

Thanks @ianmcd - I thought that is what you meant - thanks again for confirming

will let you know how I get on!

 

[James Sockett]

Thanks @ianmcd - I thought that is what you meant - thanks again for confirming

will let you know how I get on!

@ianmcd - all up and running now thank you very much! Although the mother wants a hive fitting now! (Look out for a ‘I’m stuck’ post haha)

 

[ianmcd]

Very easy swap over dont worry about it , just give us a shout when you get it, you have to get the single channel hive

 

[ericmark]

Do post in a few weeks and say how well it worked.

I will admit Nest Gen 3 has not worked as well as I expected, I can in hind sight see the problem, some times doors left open, some times closed, so it can't learn as the time take for heat to reach wall thermostat varies that much depending if doors open or closed.

I have now set it to heat up in steps, over night at 17°C at 07:15 set to 19°C, at 08:15 set to 19.5°C, at 09:15 set to 20°C, at 10:15 set to 20.5°C, this stops the system over shooting then switching off for an age. The TRV can change temperature anywhere in that 4 hour slot and still get hot water, hall where the wall thermostat is fitted, the TRV head changes temperature at 08:00 this allows the bedrooms to get warm before the hall starts to warm up, this was not the plan.

The plan was to set the TRV heads to follow the Nest wall thermostat, this failed, the system does work well now, but it did not work well to start with, so it would be interesting to compare Nest and Hive, being two popular systems. Hive would not have worked for me, because of using existing wiring, however I do like the idea of the Hive system and would love to know if in practice it works.