Another wheel alignment thread ( but different ! )

[mointainwalker]

I just fitted my winter-wheels last week ( just in time as there have been heavy falls since ) and would like your views on the following.

These Avon WX7 tyres were fitted on my Vectra C in Jan 2022 and have covered 10 700 miles since. Tracking was done at the same time and new drop-links were fitted. One drop-link failed after 6 500 miles and was replaced.I can't be certain if worn tyre was on this corner but think it likely. I'm not aware of any bangs on wheels from hitting kerbs or pot-holes to knock wheels out of alignment.

Before fiting the wheels I measured the tread -depth ( was 6 mm when new ) and found three tyres with 4 mm on the outer edge and 3 mm on inner edge. One had 4 mm outer and 1.8 mm inner.

1) Would you normally expect to find a differential between inner and outer edges ? I am not certain if tracking is meant to (hopefully ) eliminate any effect of road camber ( I sometimes think the camber seems quite sharp here: no idea if mountain roads have different specifications ) as well as contributing to steering ability.
2) Would a worn-drop-link have any effect as seen on the excessively worn tyre ? I had it changed about 120 miles after I first heard clunking.
3) Is tracking adjusted per wheel or per side i.e. could a screw-up have affected one wheel but not the other on the same side ?
4) Is it likely that a well-established small garage selected by personal recommendation would make an error ? I'm assuming it's not a particularly difficult job.

Now awaiting your inrush of ideas.

Edit: I will get the tracking checked asap, but garages are inundated as the first snow-falls mean ..........a big rush for winter-tyres, especially as the law now requires winter-tyres or chains/socks for the car in mountainous regions.

 

[Burnerman]

Incorrect tracking can give a wear differential on your tyres big time......the trouble is you’d never know when driving!
A castor angle problem would also give this, but that isn’t really adjustable - certainly not at a tyrefitting centre.
I’ll stick my neck out here, and say that winter or all season tyres aren’t as good as resisting wear as a ‘ normal’ set.
I had some Maxxis all seasons fitted to our Honda HRV and after 20k miles the pressure fault lamp was often on. The fault was not the pressures but the treads were actually delaminating, much to my surprise - this was a new one on me.
Drop link failure won’t have any effect on the tracking, but both front wheels need to be individually set - with the steering wheel locked in the straight ahead position. Laser alignment is the way to go, but as always it needs a competent operator!
Regards
John

 

[Mottie]

I’ve never seen wheel alignment done correctly in any garage. Maybe I’ve been going to the wrong garages…..

 

[Burnerman]

I can't agree more with that one.....infinitely variable I've found!
I actually use my local Kwik Fit, but I'm known there and stand by the gear as they operate it - I'm not trying to be a prat or smart arse but they seem to appreciate the interest and tell me what's going on.
I've cracked open the track rod end nuts first which could help things along.
John

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Winter tyres aren't too good at resisting wear. It's the compound that makes the difference. I think that and the camber would explain the difference on inner and outer edges, as long as 1 edge wasn't going bald whilst other side had full or deep tread

Drop link could certainly have caused wear but doubt that much in 120 miles, but it would have been getting weaker before knocking.

Tracking can be done wrong but it's not a major job to be done right. A small independent would be likely to get it right, assuming he is used to his equipment and wasn't brand new and he was learning how to use it.

If the tracking was adjusted so only 1 wheel was "out", you would notice wear very quickly

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Before fiting the wheels I measured the tread -depth ( was 6 mm when new ) and found three tyres with 4 mm on the outer edge and 3 mm on inner edge. One had 4 mm outer and 1.8 mm inner.

I'd expect the rear tyres to be about equal and any obvious edge to edge wear to be on the fronts. If the wear was on the rears I'd want to check bushes, bearings and suspension for the reason.

1) Would you normally expect to find a differential between inner and outer edges ? I am not certain if tracking is meant to (hopefully ) eliminate any effect of road camber ( I sometimes think the camber seems quite sharp here: no idea if mountain roads have different specifications ) as well as contributing to steering ability.

Likely to be wear on edges but shouldn't be excessive

3) Is tracking adjusted per wheel or per side i.e. could a screw-up have affected one wheel but not the other on the same side ?

Simplified. But the rears would be set to equal lines and the fronts adjusted to that, so no. Any wear should be relatively equal.

 

[JohnD]

Strange misalingnments are sometimes due to bent suspension components after a prang, less often a bent bodyshell or chassis. If replacement of worn parts and the usual adjustments won't correct it, you can get the measurements checked. It is now done with laser devices.

 

[mointainwalker]

I’ve never seen wheel alignment done correctly in any garage. Maybe I’ve been going to the wrong garages…..

Does that mean that you think I should go to a tyre-fitting depot ?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Does that mean that you think I should go to a tyre-fitting depot ?

Last place I'd go

Staff turnover too high, possible to get a very inexperienced person doing it

Good local independent every time

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I’ve never seen wheel alignment done correctly in any garage. Maybe I’ve been going to the wrong garages…..

My experience too..

I wonder what everyone thinks of those DIY gagets, where you simply run the car onto a steel plate, which is free to move on a second plate, calibrated with angles?

I often thought to build a laser alignment system of my own - it's just a matter of distance and angles, with a bit of trig..

 

[carmanmemoranda]

My experience too..

I wonder what everyone thinks of those DIY gagets, where you simply run the car onto a steel plate, which is free to move on a second plate, calibrated with angles?

They work. But the problem is to do any adjustments and then recheck makes it a lot of work. Need to resettle the suspension and roll the car backwards and forwards between each measurement and adjustment Good for a check though.

I often thought to build a laser alignment system of my own - it's just a matter of distance and angles, with a bit of trig..

Yes. Tracking isn't that technical. But it's understanding the equipment and the readings and adjusting accordingly.

 

[Mottie]

Does that mean that you think I should go to a tyre-fitting depot ?

Never seen them do it properly either!
Before checking it they rarely Jack the car up and check all joints and wheel bearings for any play and correct that if required before proceeding and they rarely check and adjust all tyre pressures. This is just the basic 2 wheel alignment I’m talking about though which is all that’s usually needed for the average car - those that have specialised computerised alignment equipment should be better but then you won’t be getting that done for £30. It will be £100+ minimum and often a lot more. My mate in a Lotus specialists uses a dedicated bit of kit that cost them £20k so they have to charge a fair wack. They do a lot of race/track cars though.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Last place I'd go

Staff turnover too high, possible to get a very inexperienced person doing it

Good local independent every time

Luckily we have a tracking/alignment specialist in Bristol that just does tracking and has experienced people and the right equipment. Anyone considering tracking - worth it to see if there's a good specialist in your area.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Luckily we have a tracking/alignment specialist in Bristol that just does tracking and has experienced people and the right equipment. Anyone considering tracking - worth it to see if there's a good specialist in your area.

Nothing wrong with that

But it doesn't need a specialist for majority of cars, it just needs competance

 

[Avocet]

I'm often disappointed watching garages and tyre outlets use tracking equipment. You're tying to measure to a fraction of a millimetre at times, and they just don't take the necessary care. I once visited a place where they had just shelled-out a lot of money for a 4-wheel laser alignment system. Alarm bells started ringing when the proprietor told me it had been worth its weight in gold - practically ever car - even brand new from the factory, the cambers were out. The alarm bells started ringing even louder when he told me it was always the same side, in the same direction...

A couple of minutes with a long spirit level confirmed my suspicions. The ramp that they were using this kit on, was about half a degree ****ed...

People just expect too much of the technology, because they've written a big cheque.