Any combis beefy enough for two showers?

[Andy.T]

Hi there,

We live in a 1970's 3 bed detached house, double glazed and insulated. We are (and have been for a while) looking at replacing our ageing Potterton boiler. It is in a conventional arrangement currently but we like the idea of moving to a System or a Combi boiler to free up the space that the tanks take up in the loft.

However we had pretty much discounted the idea of a Combi as we may in the future have two showers (we are looking at possibly installing a downstairs shower room in the future) and we figured the hot water output of a Combi just wouldn't be up to it.

However, a plumber that came out recently to quote, suprised us by suggesting that a good Combi (like a Remeha Avanta 39c or possibly a Vaillant ecoTec Plus 937) would be up to the job of running two showers at the same time.

What do you guys think? 2 showers on the go at once from a Combi? The Remeha spec sheet quotes "16 Ltr / minute at Δ 35ºC", is that good enough?

It would be lovely to think we could get away with just a Combi, as it will be so much cheaper and easier than installing a new system boiler and cylinder. We just don't want to end up with two really piddly showers. We aren't after stupidly high pressure/volume showers though, just something useable.

Any thoughts on those Combis or any others that might suit would be greatfully received!

Cheers,

Andy

 

[BigBurner]

Get the Broag 39C and the outside weather sensor too. Weather compensation comes with it. 5 yr guarantee too. 16 l/min will just do two showers but not a great flow in both at the same time. Make sure you have pressure equalisers in the mixers or external. Balance the hot and cold water system. The w/machine can fill slowly. basin does not need to be full belt, etc.

Better than a Vaillant. It is very well priced and has integral weather compensation control.
http://www.avantaplus.com/index.php?content=39c

Look at the combi options pages 17 to 21. The outside senors, are little extra.
http://www.avantaplus.com/docs/Issue 5 -Avanta Schematics Booklet.pdf

 

[Agile]

If the downstairs shower was only for occasional use then most people would fit an electric shower.

If you want two showers then they will just about work but ONLY if their combined consumption is less than 90% of the boiler flow capability.

A Vaillant 937 storage combi will give 20 li/min for a limited time until the store is depleted.

Regardless of the showers, not many professionals would advise fitting a combi without at least 20li/min if you mention two showers!

ANY other hot water use, kitchen, washing machine etc. will exceed the boiler's output and disturb anyone showering.

Combi boiler=one shower! Deviate at your own risk!

Tony

 

[BigBurner]

A Vaillant 937 storage combi will give 20 li/min for a limited time until the store is depleted.

As it has a 15 litre store, that will be very quick. The back to around 14 litres/min. They are huge and very expensive.

The W-Bosch 440 and 550 (floor mounted & w/machine sized) will do two showers easily.

Combi boiler=one shower! Deviate at your own risk!

Total tripe. You have been told about giving misinformation!!!!
The Ethos 54C gives 23 l/min. The 440 20, 550 25. You can go an on and on. Every major makers ahas a high flow combi doing around 20 litres./min.

The 39C will do two showers at reduced flow, but OK, one wonderfully so. If two showers and need v good flowrates then 18-20 litres/min is the minimum needed.

 

[Andy.T]

Okidokie.. couple of conflicting views there.

Anyone else care to add some weight to either view?

Andy

 

[Agile]

Dont take any notice of BigBull****!

He is not a boiler installer and never has been, just someone who retired some while ago from a job with a boiler component maker. He now spends his time reading brochures and posting rubbish on forums.

Search on some of his posts to see what he is like!

He has no experience of showers and no idea of the flow rates they can use.

I dont know anything about your showers hence my advice that you measure the flow rate.

But remember a boiler "just" running two showers will give out a reduced flow rate and temperature if any other hot outlet is used.

Tony

 

[gas4you]

Big Burner has only just been allowed back onto the forum after being temporarily banned for giving mis-information and being dangerous in his advice as well.

In this post he is not dangerous, but is somewhat misleading you.

If you want to take the advice of someone who is incompetent, unqualified and has never fitted a boiler in his life, then go ahead.

All his information is obtained from brochures and the internet, where in both mediums, manufacturers are always going to paint their products in a good light. Just search his previous, outrageous posts on here, then see for yourself. The only posters that appear to agree with him are those that are him using a different 'alias' and talking to himself

I fit Broags and Vaillants and can assure you that the Vaillant in better quality than the Broag. Thats not saying the Broag is carp, but just in a lower league, as the price reflects and is the market they have aimed the product at.

IF you have an incoming cold flow rate >20 litres/min and ideally an incoming mains pressure >2Bar, then I would look at the Ecotec Plus 937 as the best in the mass produced market.

You will get 200 litres of HW before the boiler reverts to a standad 15.5 l/min combi.

If money is no object, the best you can buy is an ATAG Q series.

 

[Andy.T]

Thanks again gents, I'm a long term lurker on here and did a fair bit of searching before I posted. I think I have a feel for the reps of the contributors on here so far.

I should probably point out that we actually only have a bath currently, it will only be when we refurb the upstairs bathroom that we will have a shower and only if we install a downstairs shower room that we'll have two.

So we will be able to select modest showers I guess that don't have massive flow rates. Does that help make a Combi more likely to fit the bill?

Between Broag and Vaillant on the face of it one would go with the Broag as it has has a longer warranty, is a tad cheaper and doesn't seem to be really hated by people on here but I think Vaillant have a good rep and are more established in the domestic market. I wonder why they don't just match Broag's 5 year warranty if their reliability is so good?

I'll have a look at Atag (just for a giggle).

Cheers,

Andy

 

[gas4you]

Check out Vaillant installers in your area. Some are able to give a 3 -5 year warranty on their installations

Beware of the small print on the Broag 5 year warranty, as with all longer than usual boiler warranty's

 

[bengasman]

I only fit worcester bosch and have installed a number of 35, 37 and 42 kw, which work absolutely fine with 2 showers.
gaspipe and water pipe need to be big enough though.
best results with good thermostatic showers

 

[BigBurner]

Between Broag and Vaillant on the face of it one would go with the Broag as it has has a longer warranty, is a tad cheaper and doesn't seem to be really hated by people on here but I think Vaillant have a good rep and are more established in the domestic market. I wonder why they don't just match Broag's 5 year warranty if their reliability is so good?

You forgot the superior control system of the Broag - weather compensation. Well worth getting. Better economy and comfort conditions.

 

[Andy.T]

If money is no object, the best you can buy is an ATAG Q series.

Just had a quick look and I can't find any UK prices, found a couple of Euro ones though and they came out at like E3,300? Eek!

If that's right then yeah that's out of our range I think... even before the £ sunk like a brick. It's a shame as Atags UK HQ is just round the corner from me.

Andy

 

[bengasman]

just noticed a series of blocked out posts which normally indicates mr bigbulshit is spouting his usual nonsense.
take his advice at your peril; he has never fitted a boiler, is not a plumber and not corgi registered.

 

[gas4you]

If money is no object, the best you can buy is an ATAG Q series.

Just had a quick look and I can't find any UK prices, found a couple of Euro ones though and they came out at like E3,300? Eek!

If that's right then yeah that's out of our range I think... even before the £ sunk like a brick. It's a shame as Atags UK HQ is just round the corner from me.

Andy

Call ATAG and ask for one of their select dealers in your area. They should be able to give you a price

 

[gas4you]

Big Burner

The space was added to match that vacuum between your ears

You are a clear idiot.

Strange how the only unqualified and incompetent brochure reader thinks evryone else who is qualified and has actual indusrty experience is an idiot


Keep making yourself look foolish, you forum laughing stock