Any Welders on here?

[conny]

Strange title I know but to the point.

Seems like I am to be elected to be a H & S rep for the shop floor and I am trying to find some onfo regarding oxy-acetylene procedures.
I need to know where I can lay my hands on some leaflets/pictures/videos/dvds etc showing the correct way to light and extinguish them.
I've tried various suppliers, the HSE themselves and various websites but can't find what I am looking for.
What I would REALLY like is a video/DVD showing what can happen when things go wrong and you get an exoplosive situation and the aftermath. I am not being morbid/gorry or anything but I am aware that some of the lads but their blind faith in Flashback Arresters and think it will never happen.

Any help would be much appreciated. Doesn't matter if I have to pay for the info because the company will have to bear that cost.

Thanks in advance.

 

[snico]

what about this

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg297.pdf[/quote]

 

[sooey]

You've remided me of something from many years ago when I was an apprentice motor mechanic.

One of the lads was doing some oxy acetylene welding on a car and suddenly there was a high pitched buzzing noise, followed swiftly by him lashing the still lit torch and pegging out of the garage as fast as he could go. I looked up from where I was working, saw him go, heard the noise and ran like f*ck, shouting for this startled customer in the garage to do the same.

We were all safely outside listening to the noise still going, the foreman (sh*thouse) asked me (17 year old lad) to go back in and turn the bottles off. After I'd told him to **** off he summoned up the courage to do it himself.

The funny thing about it though was that he crept up on them on his toes, like a pantomime villain, as if the slightest noise was going to make them go boom.

 

[WDIK]

just a dirty jet lol
needed pricking
anyway they have flash arrestors

 

[conny]

Sooey,
thats the type of thing I mean.
The worst thing you can do if an acetylene bottle blows back is turn it off!
You will then be putting the internal burning gas under increasing pressure which will make it go BOOM! And when they go they certainly go! Thats why if you hear of anything like this the police/fire brigade evacuate for a radius of at least 200 yards though most go for 400 yards.
That buzzing/humming is a sure tell tale to me to leave Linford Christie on the starting blocks I can tell you!

Snico, will have a look at your link but have already contacted HSE and got no where.
Thanks anyway and will go and have a look and let you know.

 

[sooey]

Conny, there was a guy killed in Melling a good few years ago, in his own back garden. Was a scrap dealer of sorts I think, was cutting something with a torch and went through another bottle hidden below what he was cutting, got decapitated I heard. I wasn't there that day but believe the bang shook the whole of Melling, his young lad was helping him but had just gone into the house.

 

[Stivino]

What about the company that supplies the gases?
http://www.boc-gases.com/

 

[WDIK]

Sooey,
thats the type of thing I mean.
The worst thing you can do if an acetylene bottle blows back is turn it off!
You will then be putting the internal burning gas under increasing pressure which will make it go BOOM! And when they go they certainly go! Thats why if you hear of anything like this the police/fire brigade evacuate for a radius of at least 200 yards though most go for 400 yards.
That buzzing/humming is a sure tell tale to me to leave Linford Christie on the starting blocks I can tell you!

Snico, will have a look at your link but have already contacted HSE and got no where.
Thanks anyway and will go and have a look and let you know.

cant happen, no oxgen, and flame arrestors.

utter rubbish.

 

[conny]

Snico,
thanks mate, a very useful link and I have printed a copy off.
Cheers mate.

Stivino, have had a look at your link and will email them to see if they can help.
Cheers mate.

 

[conny]

cant happen, no oxgen, and flame arrestors.

utter rubbish.

Tell that to a fireman who has to attend one of these incidents!

If you have flash back arresters I agree it shouldn't happen but a lot of places don't have them fitted, they are mechanical devices that can fail, or you could have a leak at the bottle which could ignite.

This is the kind of blase attitude I am up against in work and believe me it scares the **** out of me that people can take the attitude, "It won't happen to me."

Well tell that to the families of those it has happened to!

Click Snico's link and take the trouble to read ALL of the information with particular attention to pages 13 and 14.

 

[WDIK]

You will then be putting the internal burning gas under increasing pressure which will make it go BOOM!

perhaps you don't understand what Im saying here?

there can be no internal burning within an acetylene cylinder as its just acetylene and cannot combust with out oxygen.

subjected to external heat, it can rupture and combine with oxygen and explode.

 

[conny]

When acetylene decomposes due to heat from any source or it becomes seperated from the internal absorbent material in the bottle it breaks down to acetone which is highly volatile. If you have a leaking cylinder you have the means of combining oxygen with the acetylene thereby producing an explosive situation.
If it is impossible for this scenario to occur then why use flash arresters to prevent it burning back into the bottle?
Why evacuate neighbourhoods when a premises which uses this equipment goes up in flames?
Why can you not see that accidents DO HAPPEN?

its just acetylene

But its not!

It is a liquid which is contained in an absorbent filling.
You must NEVER lay an acetylene bottle on its side because the acetylene will seperate from the filling.
Google the construction of an acetylene bottle or watch more 'Discovery' channel.

 

[kevplumb]

Google the construction of an acetylene bottle or watch more 'Discovery' channel.

mebee if you did you would know there is a lead plug in the bottle

the only way an acetylene bottle will go up is if its well alight inside when you close the valve

non of us raggy assed pipefitters have never used any of this technichal stuff



sorry if that don't quite sit with what you belive

 

[WDIK]

When acetylene decomposes due to heat from any source or it becomes seperated from the internal absorbent material in the bottle it breaks down to acetone which is highly volatile. If you have a leaking cylinder you have the means of combining oxygen with the acetylene thereby producing an explosive situation.
If it is impossible for this scenario to occur then why use flash arresters to prevent it burning back into the bottle?

you know what?

I COMPLETELY UTTERLY AND UNRESERVADLEY APOLOGISE TO YOU, USED THE STUFF FOR 40YRS AND I DIDNT KNOW

An acetylene cylinder has a different design from most other gas cylinders. It
consists of a steel shell containing a porous mass. The porous mass is a cellular
structure which completely fills the cylinder. The acetylene gas in the cylinder is
dissolved in acetone which is absorbed by the porous mass. Decomposition of the
acetylene is usually triggered by heat. For example, if the cylinder is:
■ involved in a fire;
■ scorched by flames from a blowtorch; or
■ involved in a flashback.
The porous mass is designed to slow down or stifle any decomposition of the gas.
From the start of decomposition to the cylinder exploding should take several
hours. This will usually (but not always) provide time for emergency action.

 

[kevplumb]

When acetylene decomposes due to heat from any source or it becomes seperated from the internal absorbent material in the bottle it breaks down to acetone which is highly volatile. If you have a leaking cylinder you have the means of combining oxygen with the acetylene thereby producing an explosive situation.
If it is impossible for this scenario to occur then why use flash arresters to prevent it burning back into the bottle?

you know what?

I COMPLETELY UTTERLY AND UNRESERVADLEY APOLOGISE TO YOU, USED THE STUFF FOR 40YRS AND I DIDNT KNOW

An acetylene cylinder has a different design from most other gas cylinders. It
consists of a steel shell containing a porous mass. The porous mass is a cellular
structure which completely fills the cylinder. The acetylene gas in the cylinder is
dissolved in acetone which is absorbed by the porous mass. Decomposition of the
acetylene is usually triggered by heat. For example, if the cylinder is:
■ involved in a fire;
■ scorched by flames from a blowtorch; or
■ involved in a flashback.
The porous mass is designed to slow down or stifle any decomposition of the gas.
From the start of decomposition to the cylinder exploding should take several
hours. This will usually (but not always) provide time for emergency action.

know nowt you