Apollo Fanfare 30/50 problems

[Deb8741]

Hi, this is my first time, although I have read everything I can on this site in relation to my problem...just hoping someone can help please!

PROBLEM 1

I have a fairly old Apollo Fanfare boiler, which I had serviced in Sept 08. A few days after the service the central heating starting making very loud banging noises so I poked my head in the loft to see steam billowing out of the expansion tank, and found that water was dripping from the overflow pipe. I turned the boiler off, fearing it might explode, and called the corgi guy back. He returned, saying 'it isn't anything we have done' and told me it might be the hi end thermostat. He tinkered about, said he had cleaned it up and left the boiler set on Lo setting. This appeared to work fine, until this cold spell where I can't warm the house up beyond 17 degrees, even with the room stat set on max. (Radiators are working, but not super hot, no thermostatic valves on rads)
Today I decided to switch the boiler back onto Hi (I read on here that this is the correct setting for winter) only to find the banging/dripping returned, so have put it back on Lo and am still cold!
Please can anyone advise me on what the problem may be, and also a rough idea of how much it will cost to fix.

PROBLEM 2

I have a honeywell programmer fitted, which gives the options of hot water only, or hot water and heating. Unfortunately when the latter is selected I get heating but no hot water, and have been using the electric immersion instead. The hot water works fine if only hot water is selected however I would like (and I don't think it's too much to ask!) both at the same time. I have fiddled with the lever on the Honeywell V4073A motorised mid-position valve, and it appears to make no difference at all. Currently it is in the mid position.

Any advice would be gratefully received! Thanks.

Deb

 

[D_Hailsham]

PROBLEM 1

He returned, saying 'it isn't anything we have done' and told me it might be the hi end thermostat. He tinkered about, said he had cleaned it up and left the boiler set on Lo setting.

Makes you wonder what he didn't do which he should have!

Cleaning the stat will do nothing - it's a sealed unit; if it is faulty it needs to be replaced. The overheat thermostat may have gone as well as it should have kicked in and prevented your boiler overheating.

PROBLEM 2

I have a honeywell programmer fitted, which gives the options of hot water only, or hot water and heating. Unfortunately when the latter is selected I get heating but no hot water, and have been using the electric immersion instead. The hot water works fine if only hot water is selected however I would like (and I don't think it's too much to ask!) both at the same time. I have fiddled with the lever on the Honeywell V4073A motorised mid-position valve, and it appears to make no difference at all. Currently it is in the mid position.

Which Honeywell programmer do you have? You may be able to adjust it so you can have CH only or HW only or CH and HW.

Turn of the electricity to the system and check what the valve does; it should revert to HW only. You can check this with the lever - if it has resistance when you move it from auto to man, the valve has returned to HW only. If the lever is floppy, the valve is stuck. Remove the actuator (box part) and check that you can turn the valve spindle - it only moves a quarter turn or less.

 

[Deb8741]

Thank you for quick response!

The timer is a Honeywell ST699. I have switched both heating and hot water controls on, and the pipe to the hot water tank is getting lovely and hot.... however I am waiting to see if the radiators go off, which I suspect they will <sigh>

I switched off the power, and moved the motorised valve lever from the mid position to manual... there was resistance, but didn't need to force it. Without any power, the lever moved back to the mid position. I turned the power back on, and when I switched the control for hot water on, a little whir was heard from the valve box, and the lever moved fractionally (miniscule movement!) but still ramains in the mid position.

Deb

 

[Deb8741]

ps to the last.....

I paid the corgi guy for a service, then another £50 odd to fix the banging problem (which obviously is not fixed) so I am a little cross. I am quite cabable of switching the switch on my boiler from Hi to Lo without charging myself a penny!!

Deb

 

[Deb8741]

...... Just as I thought, if I have both hot water and central heating switches on on the timer the central heating goes off...........

Deb

 

[D_Hailsham]

The timer is a Honeywell ST699.

You can have any combination of CH and HW with this timer, i.e CH only, HW only or CH and HW; this can be set using the slider switches. The only restriction is that the times are the same for both, i.e you set a time from say 6pm to 11pm and then use the sliders to decide which you want on. If you leave both sliders in the Auto position, both CH and HW will come on. But you can turn either off by moving the slider to off.

I am therefore a bit bemused when you say that you can only have CH with HW. Is it the programmer which you think is doing this, i.e you can't slide the HW switch to OFF when CH is ON, or that the valve is not moving to CH only?

I switched off the power, and moved the motorised valve lever from the mid position to manual... there was resistance, but didn't need to force it.

When you turn off the power to the valve, it should automatically return to HW port only open, i.e the lever should be right against the Auto end of the slot and there should be a resistance felt when you slie the lever over to the Man side. When you release the lever, you should hear the valve return to the HW only side. The resistance is caused by the spring which makes the valve return when the lever is released.

Without any power, the lever moved back to the mid position. I turned the power back on, and when I switched the control for hot water on, a little whir was heard from the valve box, and the lever moved fractionally (miniscule movement!) but still ramains in the mid position.

This shouldn't be happening. Are you just turning the power off by setting the programmer sliders to off, or are you turning the power of at the main switch for the heating system?

 

[ChrisR]

Re the overheating, I'd be checking or just changing the thermostats (commonly faulty) and looking into the pump which could be worn out and valves, which can block.

CHeck the wiring between the programmer and 3 port valve. Very often there's a wire missing from the HW off terminal on the programmer.

 

[Deb8741]

There are 2 sliders on the programmer, which move freely and independantly of each other.

HW only selected works fine, heating the cylinder nicely, lovely hot water
CH only selected, central heating comes on (but not super warm as fault with boiler when set on Hi)
HW and CH selected, only hot water works, no central heating, even though both sliders are positioned in the 'cont' position.

The mid-position valve settled itself in the half way position after switching the power off at the mains. Would it help if I manually moved it to the auto position?

I am very grateful for your help!

Deb

 

[D_Hailsham]

There are 2 sliders on the programmer, which move freely and independantly of each other.

That's cleared up my confusion.

HW only selected works fine, heating the cylinder nicely, lovely hot water.
CH only selected, central heating comes on (but not super warm as fault with boiler when set on Hi)
HW and CH selected, only hot water works, no central heating, even though both sliders are positioned in the 'cont' position.
The mid-position valve settled itself in the half way position after switching the power off at the mains. Would it help if I manually moved it to the auto position?

All this is pointing to a faulty valve.

Remove the actuator (box) and check the spindle for movement, it may be sticking. A squirt with WD40 will help. If it is not sticking, replce the actuator and test the valve as shown in Honeywell Wiring Guide pages 14 & 15.

 

[Deb8741]

Thanks, I have some trusty WD40 under the sink! I will turn the power off at the main switch, but when I remove the cover of the valve is there a permanent live wire I should avoid?

 

[D_Hailsham]

Thanks, I have some trusty WD40 under the sink! I will turn the power off at the main switch, but when I remove the cover of the valve is there a permanent live wire I should avoid?

If you turn off at the main switch, there will not be any live wires. In any case you need to remove the complete actuator, not just the cover, so the valve spindle is completely free.

 

[Deb8741]

Thanks to both of you for your help... I think I may be a little out of my depth here (single woman who thinks she can do anything ha ha). I will wait for the corgi to return to fix the problem he was supposed to fix last visit, and hope I have the nerve to ask for it to be done at a reduced price since I have already paid him to fix it once!

At least I know to expect the thermostat(s) on the boiler to be changed, and the motorized valve to be fixed.

Thanks again!

Deb

 

[D_Hailsham]

I will wait for the corgi to return to fix the problem he was supposed to fix last visit, and hope I have the nerve to ask for it to be done at a reduced price since I have already paid him to fix it once!

You have paid £50 so far for an unsuccessful repair so I would certainly expect him to do the job at a discount - plus parts. A thermostat will be about £10 and a complete mid-position valve about £70. An actuator on its own is about £40.

 

[Deb8741]

Out of interest could anyone please tell me what setting the pump should be on? I do recall the corgi guy saying he had turned it down a bit, and I wondered if that could be the cause of the boiler going mad when set on Hi?

Thanks!

 

[swbjackson]

The pump will be set to suit the system. It shouldn't hurt to turn it up and it may well help the problem. The fanfare is a lot water content heat exchanger and needs a minimum flow through it or it kettles.