Aquapanel or plaster?

[pjo123]

Hi all

1930s solid brick house.

Bathroom, some of the plaster came off with tiles on the outside wall, so did the sensible thing and removed the rest of it (heavy tiles being put up).

Not a very big area, big window in there too.

Roughly 6ft tall by 2ft 2" wide, then another 15 " by 42" under the window.

The rest of the walls are new partitions with either plaster board or aqua panel on (depending whether they're near the bath or not)

Part of me is tempted to screw aqua panel directly to the brickwork, but I'm sure I read somewhere it needs air behind it.

My concern is two fold.

Am happy to give plastering a go but I need to tile the room ASAP. Could give it maybe 3 or 4 days max for the plaster to dry out (I've read it takes months).

I'm also worried about the weight of the tiles. They are 16" x 12" x 10mm, box weighs a ton, but maybe I'm just being silly (of course a box of tiles that big is heavy ...) and when looked into various skimming tips on the web, have seen it mentioned about the weight of tile being put on, which is another reason I was thinking aquapanel.

What do you guys suggest please, it's a sound, dry (but not perfectly level) brick wall.

Bonding (or something else) followed by a couple of skim coats

or

aqua panel, maybe with tile adhesive used to dot n dab just to get it level before I screw it in place?

many thanks

 

[Richard C]

Part of me is tempted to screw aqua panel directly to the brickwork, but I'm sure I read somewhere it needs air behind it. Aqua panel, maybe with tile adhesive used to dot n dab just to get it level before I screw it in place?

Aquapanel or any tile backer board over plaster every time, even MR plasterboard where it's acceptable. But be careful with solid external walls; apart from possible (natural) moisture ingress, you could create cold spots with un-insulated boarding direct to the walls &/or voids where you will get all sorts of nasties growing. I would advise a breathable membrane, void & then a damp proof membrane under the boards.

But don’t use tile adhesive of any sort to D&D, use drywall adhesive.

Am happy to give plastering a go but I need to tile the room ASAP. Could give it maybe 3 or 4 days max for the plaster to dry out (I've read it takes months). I'm also worried about the weight of the tiles.

In a new property, up to 6 months maybe. But for refurb, 10-14 days for a re-skim, up to 4 weeks for a base coat & skim will see it OK. Don’t plaster; gypsum base plasters are not suitable at all for tiling & Finishing plaster will only take 20 kg/m including addy & grout, so if you want large format tiles, forget it. You must also use a cement powder addy on large/heavy tiles not tub mix or it will end in disaster. Only use quality trade addy & grout, avoid cheapo DIY stuff, it’s crap & use the correct addy/grout for you tiles & tile base. Read the Tiling forum sticky & archive posts, it could prevent you making potentially expensive mistakes; come back with questions as & when.

 

[pjo123]

But be careful with solid external walls; apart from possible (natural) moisture ingress, you could create cold spots with un-insulated boarding direct to the walls &/or voids where you will get all sorts of nasties growing. I would advise a breathable membrane, void & then a damp proof membrane under the boards.

Thanks. Solid was the wrong word to use, I meant sound, brick, it's a cavity wall with cavity wall insulation, that being the case, is the damp proof membrane still needed?

But don’t use tile adhesive of any sort to D&D, use drywall adhesive.

Thanks. reason I suggested tile adhesive is because I (think I ) read somewhere that aquaboard makers don't recommend any gypsum based products be used on their boards and I presumed dry wall adhesive is gypsum based.

You must also use a cement powder addy on large/heavy tiles not tub mix or it will end in disaster. Only use quality trade addy & grout, avoid cheapo DIY stuff, it’s crap & use the correct addy/grout for you tiles & tile base. Read the Tiling forum sticky & archive posts, it could prevent you making potentially expensive mistakes; come back with questions as & when.

Ok thanks, was going to go for a tub of unibond tile adhesive, but will take your advice , read the sticky and get some decent cement based powdered quality stuff.

I presume that if skim is no good for my tiles, I'd be better off tiling directly onto the plasterboard in the rest of the bathroom? Saves me a job if so

What should I use for the joints on both plasterboard and aquapanel please (haven't read the sticky or looked at the archives yet, if it's answered in there, no worries )

many many thanks

edit: just read your response in another thread re aquapanel joints

 

[Richard C]

Thanks. reason I suggested tile adhesive is because I (think I ) read somewhere that aquaboard makers don't recommend any gypsum based products be used on their boards and I presumed dry wall adhesive is gypsum based.

Probably only for plaster skimming but that's not entirely true either; with gypsum & cement you just have to be carefull to avoid a reaction between the two. In any case, your only using it to hold the boards in place before you use mechanical fixings, D&D on its own is not sufficient.

was going to go for a tub of unibond tile adhesive,

Oh my god

but will take your advice , read the sticky and get some decent cement based powdered quality stuff.

Thanks Christ for that The archive will tell you what's good & what's not.

I presume that if skim is no good for my tiles, I'd be better off tiling directly onto the plasterboard in the rest of the bathroom? Saves me a job if so

Definitely; most boards will take 32 kg/sqm but gypsum plaster knocks that down by 30% + you will aslo know it's a sound tile base. Don't prime unless the addy manufacturer says so (most won't) & never use conventional PVA on a tile base.

What should I use for the joints on both plasterboard and aquapanel please (haven't read the sticky or looked at the archives yet, if it's answered in there, no worries edit: just read your response in another thread re aquapanel joints

Lots of other stuff in there as well, just come back when you need to.

 

[pjo123]

I've spent a few hours having a good read and I think I know most of what I need now

Two things not sure about.

1) Which adhesive to go for. I realise I should buy a flexi cement based powder, but have looked at the Bal and Mapie range and there are loads of different ones???

Will probably go for Mapie. They list 15 different cementitous powder adhesives lol

Something like their Kereflex ?

16" x 12" x 10mm ceramic (I presume, box doesn't actually say, back of them seem to be same as other ceramic tiles I've used, made by Johnson in the UK, brought at B&Q).

2) Happy with the wall situation except one. The one wall I haven't mentioned yet. This is a brick internal wall, end of the bath and sink will go against it. It's plastered with whatever they used in the lathe and plaster days (although onto solid brick). Plasters quite thick and while in 4 or 5 places a couple of mm of top coat came off when the tiles were removed, the wall seems sound.

Part of it's been painted, where the top row of these tiles will go (tiling higher than the original tiles were). As the top 1/2 this wall wont be tiled and the plaster hasn't blown at all, what's the best way to proceed here before tiling please?

Many thanks, have learnt a lot from reading through this forum

 

[Richard C]

Sorry I haven’t had time to reply yet, been busy but I will get back either tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[Richard C]

Solid was the wrong word to use, I meant sound, brick, it's a cavity wall with cavity wall insulation, that being the case, is the damp proof membrane still needed?

Missed this the other day no.

Which adhesive to go for. I realise I should buy a flexi cement based powder, but have looked at the Bal and Mapie range and there are loads of different ones???

Will probably go for Mapie. They list 15 different cementitous powder adhesives lol
Something like their Kereflex ?

16" x 12" x 10mm ceramic (I presume, box doesn't actually say, back of them seem to be same as other ceramic tiles I've used, made by Johnson in the UK, brought at B&Q).

The product ranges can be a little confusing, I use BAL exclusively as I know they will work for me; in your case I would use either Rapidset (solid walls) or Rapidset Flexible for the boards & Microflex grout. Mapei is also a good quality product & after a look at the spec sheet, Keraflex seems to be much the same spec & should be OK.

Strictly speaking you only need flexi over the boards but depending how much you need elsewhere, sometimes it’s more cost effective to use it everywhere.

2) Happy with the wall situation except one. The one wall I haven't mentioned yet. This is a brick internal wall, end of the bath and sink will go against it. It's plastered with whatever they used in the lathe and plaster days (although onto solid brick). Plasters quite thick and while in 4 or 5 places a couple of mm of top coat came off when the tiles were removed, the wall seems sound.

Part of it's been painted, where the top row of these tiles will go (tiling higher than the original tiles were). As the top 1/2 this wall wont be tiled and the plaster hasn't blown at all, what's the best way to proceed here before tiling please?

If its laths fixed to the walls, I would be inclined to pull it off, re-board & tile over that as you can never be too sure how well the laths remain fixed to the walls; those are heavy tiles you’re using & the last thing you want is for them to start pulling the lath away from the wall.

With painted surfaces, if it’s just emulsion paint & well attached there shouldn’t be any problems but if any sort of bathroom vinyl paint or oil based gloss is involved, you should score the surface thoroughly & apply an acrylic primer; scoring wouldn’t go amiss with the emulsion either.

You must also prime gypsum plaster & boards to avoid the risk of a reaction between the cement in the addy & gypsum.

 

[pjo123]

Many many thanks for your time.

I noticed that B&Q sell Mapei products but as is typical of my luck, have a completely different labelling and naming system to those on Mapeis site.

It would be easier for me to get it from B&Q especially as they're open late Sat and Sun, then if I don't buy enough, can always nip out for 5 mins and get more etc.

I noticed different Mapie products in their (B&Q) store to those I found on their web site (else I'm going mad). I'm sure in the store they had Flexible Cement based Mapie in 20kg bags either white or grey (sure it had the word cement on the fromt of the bag).

Found similar on the web, but they dont look the same as the bags I saw in-store.

That asside, do people think that the Buildflex Mapei products B&Q sell are the same quality as their other stuff?

For example

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...refview=search&ts=1290955335630&isSearch=true

If I zoom into the pic this says S1 and also C2TE, looking at Mapeis web site, only product they have with both S1 and C2TE is the Keraflex-Maxi

Do people think I'm safe presuming this is the same product? (might drop Mapie an email to clarify)

Many thanks

 

[Richard C]

I heard some while ago that B&Q were now selling Mapei but, as I said, I use BAL. Just recently I had cause to check out the B&Q stuff for someone else & it appears to be sold under “Buildfix” labeling with a reference to Mapei in the corner. The Buildfix stuff in B&Q doesn’t use the same labeling as “bona fide” Mapei products but I’ve no idea why or if it’s even of similar quality; it may be their stab at getting into DIY products but something odd there methinks! Perhaps one of the other pro tillers on here more familiar with Mapei products may be able to shed some light on it.

I don’t think it’s safe to presume anything but if you’re sold on the B&Q/Buildfix availability & it really is Keraflex Maxi then I see no problems. You should definitely check it out by contacting Mapei (it’s what I would do) & take it from there but there is no other product would recommend buying there or indeed the range in question if it’s

 

[pjo123]

From Mapei

Thank you for your email



The Mapei products available in B+Q are from our Buildfix range which are not the same as the Mapei range. As well as the packaging and labeling, which you have noted, the formulations are not the same so there are no direct Mapei equivalents. It is possible to formulate products with markedly different raw materials so that they may still be classified as S1 and C2TE and this does not mean that one is superior or inferior to the other.



We trust that you find this information helpful

 

[pjo123]

Me again

Getting there, I know not to use the B&Q stuff from the above email.

Just been reading Aquapanels site and find conflicting info.

-------------------------
AQUAPANEL2 Cement Board
Indoor must be primed before
tiling or finishing using
AQUAPANEL2 Interior Primer
-------------------------

-------------------------
Ready-keyed for tiling; normally no sealant is required
-------------------------

I know I have to seal any Gypsum with whatever the tile adhesive recommends, I'm just confused as to whether I need to prime the aquapanel or not?

many thanks

 

[Richard C]

Thanks for the info from Mapei, it confirms what I thought. The stuff in B&Q appeasr to be a budget range aimed at the DIY market but what's really stupid is it doesn’t appear to be much if any cheaper than the real thing, presumably so B&Q can make a bigger profit from selling it.

I’ve never spotted the ambiguous info before & I've never primed Aquapanel when tiling it.