Are british gas trying to rip me off?

[ellie1997]

Excuse my lack of technical terms here, Ill try and explain as best I can!

I have 7 radiators in the house and the cupboard with the pump and tank are on the landing, with a header tank in the loft. Downstairs I have 3 rads, 1 hall, 1 dining room and 1 living room.

Last week the radiators downstairs stopped getting hot. We did the usual and bled the system but it didnt make a difference so we called British gas under our celcia cover. The guy came and replaced the pump. He turned off all the upstairs rads "to force the water down" and lo and behold I had heat downstairs. Until he left. Then it went cold.

7am next morning the pump was screaming so we called BG again. The 2nd guy bled all the rads and again forced heat down and it worked. Until he left. Then it went cold.

This afternoon was number 3's turn. He was the first to go into the loft and confirmed the tank was ok. He then opened the Y valve (?) and replaced a small rubber ball on a brass plate which was fractionally enlarged. He put a magnet on the pipe that led downstairs and demonstrated that it stuck so "It must be blocked". He then went downstairs and attatched a pipe to the hall radiator and led it out the front door into the guttering (our door is a floor up, we have a garage underneath us with guuttering around it).

At this point I went to move my car and I noticed what was coming out of the pipe, pure clean water.

After much to ing and fro ing he turned on the heating again. Withing 10 minutes the pump was "screaming" and the dining room and living room radiators were tepid. He said that we had a blockage and the whole pipe needed cutting away where the magnet had stuck and the entire system power flushing. The cost £635.

I said I needed to speak to my husband and as he was going I touched the hall radiator.....it was burning hot. I enquired as to how if we had a blockage this radiator was hot but he rattled on about valves and left.

I spoke to my other half who spoke to a plumber friend. He told me to take another water sample from the hall rad because if we indeed had a block it would be murky. I have done that and its crystal clear.

So, now Im in a quandry. If celcia do it its going to cost me an arm and a leg but the guy said if they dont it may affect the terms of our cover. Im not sure I believe this guy at all.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Jane
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just a footnote.....wouldnt a magnet stick to a pipe anyway????????

 

[2scoops0406]

Not if its copper no.

 

[gasgeezer]

not strictly true the sludge in the copper pipe will indeed attract a magnet

 

[corgiman]

not strictly true the sludge in the copper pipe will indeed attract a magnet

Cracking way of checking for sludge aint it?

My opinion no they aint ripping you off, in fact BG rarley rip people of as they have no need to They may be more expensive than some But does THAT make them a rip I think not

Everyone gets some say "Ihad that done for £1" when you have shelled out a grand, and the same people tell you "I'd have brought that for 80000" when you just sold it for 25p

Thats life

 

[Agile]

It sounds to me as if the feed pipe from the loft pump is blocked. This usually occurs where it joins the 22 mm system pipe. A small section will need cutting away and replacing, about £100.

BG are NOT "riping you off", their breakdown cover does not cover problems caused by blockages or sludge. Their charge for power flushing is about double what a smaller firm will charge. But they are a large company with overheads and shareholders to pay.

YOU can choose who you get to do the remedial work as you will be paying!

The water can be perfectly clear because the debris in the system becomes coagulated and hardened over time.

I once had a feed pipe blockage which withstood 6 atmospheres pressure and I had to clear it physically with a hammer and 6 mm chisel. It was a complex calcium, iron compound and impervious to citric and sulphamic acids.

British Gas dont rip people off, but they do have charges about double those of small firms.

Tony Glazier

 

[kevplumb]

tony if the cold feed was blocked the system wouldnt fill

i think the poster means the feed to the downstairs but is dosent add up

 

[ChrisR]

COuld be there's just a narrow hole int middle.
If the pump has done much screaming it could be knackered. I'm sensitive to that now because one which I was sure was OK had me guessing for a while!

I'd agree, get someone else to cut out and replace the pipe. Could be hard to get a firm quote though because you can't tell how far the grot goes. Think yourself lucky that it's possible to get near enough to the feed pipe to touch it, quite often they're not even visible, at the back of an airing cupd with a 4ft cylinder in the way.

If the pipe does prove too hard to get to, it's usually a possibility to use the vent pipe as a "combined feed and vent" by doing some plumbing in the loft. (see boiler instructions)

 

[Agile]

I have reached my diagnosis from the reported "pump screaming". I interpreted this as running dry.

I have concluded that there is not enough flow from the header tank to keep the system fully flooded.

I interpreted the BG man to be talking about the feeds to the downstairs and not to have realised that there was a blockage in the feed pipe.

The problem is that when downstairs rads are fed from the upstairs then flow downwards is contrary to convection and needs special balancing to ensure enough pump pressure to overcome the anti thermal flow. Its not difficult but just needs balancing with an understanding of the situation.

I usually treat this as a training exercise for others to sort out as training. Myself I would always convert to combined feed and expansion in the loft as Chris suggests as its quicker.

Of course its all speculation but I am usually right!

Tony Glazier

 

[kevplumb]

 

[sandwell]

ellie 1997

Sorry to hear about your problems. I worked for BGas for many years, and I confirm they do not set out to rip people off.
Engineers do make mistakes, BGas, and private plumbers as well.
Although British Gas usually has well trained engineers.
I would advise you to telephone again, ask to speak to a supervisor and explain your problem. They do have some specially trained technicians to solve problems of this kind, and they will send one of these to see you if necessary.

 

[ellie1997]

thanks all! Ill keep you posted!

 

[Agile]

Sandwell, I dont see the BG engineer in this case has made any significant mistake.

I dont think that he has correctly diagnosed the feed pipe blockage which I suspect is the main problem. But blockages are not covered by BG maintenance so the quote for powerflushing, which I assume would cover all blockages found, is correct and would solve the problem.

I would agree that BG engineers are given good training but there are still some who are not well trained in spite of what they receive. A minority I hope! Anyone who took the job seriously would be very good and soon be promoted to the "senior technician" grade.

Tony Glazier

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

Yes BG rip people off, they overcharge all the time and from my own personal experience they have some right monkeys for engineers.
Why should you be paying for fancy adverts to overpaid actors and "your" money to shareholders whose only interest is to make money off you for doing absolutaly nothing for you.
If the system needs powerflushing get a price form an independant company who will probably do a better job for half the price.

 

[sandwell]

PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN

You ought to be careful really, that post of yours could be considered libellous.

All plumbers and heating engineers want to make money off you, that is the point of being in business. If they worked for nothing they could not exist.
But most of them make fair charges.

 

[kevplumb]

and thats why pedantic is pedantic

hows the oss marra