Are these electrics safe?

[blackcloud]

Hi all
Just about to move into a new house and had an electrician in to look at putting in a bathroom extractor fan. However, he looked at the electrics and said they are not safe and no RCD and would only trip if an overload. He said best make it safe before moving in?
What are peoples thoughts ?
To make it safe what is the minimum that needs to be done? Don't want to book the moving van if walls or floor boards need to come up?
Please see pictures thanks all

 

[Ollyfp]

Well it does resemble a plate of spaghetti, but that doesn't necessarily render it unsafe, unless your sparky has spotted something specific!
Undoubtedly it's an antiquated setup, but thousands of homes still have old consumer units and wiring.
Your electrician may well be right, but it seems a bit drastic to put off moving in because a bit of electrical work needs doing.
Maybe get a second opinion, and ask if the work can be done in stages?
All the best!

 

[blackcloud]

He said there's no RCD and doesn't meet safety standards? Is that right from the pic

 

[Ollyfp]

That may be the case, but my old consumer unit has no RCDs and it's not an issue. You can buy RCDs that slot into the old fuse holders, so that might be an option.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

He said there's no RCD and doesn't meet safety standards? Is that right from the pic

He is correct, there is no obvious RCD fitted. That could be addressed by the addition of an RCD protecting the entire installation, or by individual combined RCD's/MCB's (RCBO's) and replacing that entire consumer unit. The photo, of the consumer unit, offers no clues about the condition of the rest of the installation.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

That may be the case, but my old consumer unit has no RCDs and it's not an issue. You can buy RCDs that slot into the old fuse holders, so that might be an option.

Unlikely one would be a compatible fit, with that old consumer unit, but an external one could be added.

That red/orange flex coming out of the CU, and that thin spaghetti wire, wrapped around the tails, looks a mess.

 

[Ollyfp]

Unlikely one would be a compatible fit, with that old consumer unit, but an external one could be added.

That red/orange flex coming out of the CU, and that thin spaghetti wire, wrapped around the tails, looks a mess.

Totally agree Harry. I don't like it.
I'd still go ahead and move in though. Any money you might save in avoiding the expense of temporary accommodation can be used to upgrade the consumer unit.

 

[Adam_151]

Looks like red FP used to supply the intruder alarm to me, very roughly installed, likely by the alarm guy!

That may be the case, but my old consumer unit has no RCDs and it's not an issue. You can buy RCDs that slot into the old fuse holders, so that might be an option.

No - You're thinking of MCBS to fit in an old wylex standard unit, which provide overcurrent protection in a slightly more convienient way than re-wireable or cartridge fuses, they do not provide RCD protection. In any case The OP has a Old Dorman smith loadmaster series 15 board which already has MCBs and can only accept devices from that or the earlier loadmaster range, and while RCBOs were supprisingly made for it, the whole range has been obselete for well over 30 years, and even if you could get reclaimed ones they would be type AC which you wouldn't be installing today.

The only way forward is a consumer unit change, looking at that, it was probably fitted in the early to mid 1980s under the 15th edition regulations, and I'm guessing its probably an ex local authority property? Assuming it was re-wired at the time that board was fitted, the wiring ought not to be in too bad of a shape, the main bonding will likely be undersized but assuming it exists and there is no signs of distress then that is something that could be noted if its going to be a pain to renew it. Other than that theres not a lot that would not be addressed with a new consumer unit, providing its not been messed around with. Someone's cracking paint job will go to waste though...

Best thing to do is get a electrical condition report done (EICR) and expect it to recommend a new consumer unit, but that will confirm if thats the right way to go, or if the installation is in a worse condition than I've assumed in which case the works required would be more substantial

 

[Ollyfp]

Looks like red FP used to supply the intruder alarm to me, very roughly installed, likely by the alarm guy!



No - You're thinking of MCBS to fit in an old wylex standard unit, which provide overcurrent protection in a slightly more convienient way than re-wireable or cartridge fuses, they do not provide RCD protection. In any case The OP has a Old Dorman smith loadmaster series 15 board which already has MCBs and can only accept devices from that or the earlier loadmaster range, and while RCBOs were supprisingly made for it, the whole range has been obselete for well over 30 years, and even if you could get reclaimed ones they would be type AC which you wouldn't be installing today.

The only way forward is a consumer unit change, looking at that, it was probably fitted in the early to mid 1980s under the 15th edition regulations, and I'm guessing its probably an ex local authority property? Assuming it was re-wired at the time that board was fitted, the wiring ought not to be in too bad of a shape, the main bonding will likely be undersized but assuming it exists and there is no signs of distress then that is something that could be noted if its going to be a pain to renew it. Other than that theres not a lot that would not be addressed with a new consumer unit, providing its not been messed around with. Someone's cracking paint job will go to waste though...

Best thing to do is get a electrical condition report done (EICR) and expect it to recommend a new consumer unit, but that will confirm if thats the right way to go, or if the installation is in a worse condition than I've assumed in which case the works required would be more substantial

Now that's an answer! RCD/MCB confusion duly noted.

 

[blackcloud]

Thanks all
Some Electrical tradesmen are saying its usage and you also need a full rewire. Some are saying just a new updated CU is a good idea but no need for a full rewire.
Some are saying a new CU and there no main earth and old VIR cable and no RCD protection. The supply cables to the meter need replacing.
What are others suggestions? Does it look like there's no main earth? Would main earth be somewhere else in the home?

 

[Ollyfp]

It's hard to say exactly what needs to be done without shutting off the power and having a good look.
As you have an old analogue meter, you COULD call your supplier and have a smart meter fitted. This would be free of charge and they should be able to tell you if your current arrangement is 'safe'.
I can hear the smart meter haters moaning already, but if like me, you monitor your electricity usage closely, your bills will remain the same.
When my smart meter was fitted, the engineer had a tidy up of unnecessary wires and added new tails.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Some are saying a new CU and there no main earth and old VIR cable and no RCD protection.

VRI, if true, would be bad really news - no other option, than an urgent rewire, but best see evidence of that. VRI will be either a reddy, brown colour, rubber, with a waxy, woven outer, or the same in black. The insulation goes hard, and crumbly, close to the terminals, PVC/plastic, should be fine.

 

[Taylortwocities]

As you have an old analogue meter, you COULD call your supplier and have a smart meter fitted.

The news today is that 4million of the installed smart meters have been reported as faulty. https://news.sky.com/story/nearly-f...lion meters,meters are not connected properly.
I would not rush to install one.

This would be free of charge and they should be able to tell you if your current arrangement is 'safe'.

No they will not tell you anything of the sort. Their job is to swop the old reliable meter for a abortion of a chunk of technology and high tail it out of the property as fast as they can.

As advised above. @blackcloud should spend a couple of hundred quid and have a report done on the electrical installation (an EICR).
He should make it clear to the tester that any repairs would be carried out by a different company. This is a stunt to minimise the opportunity to use an EICR as a "work creation" opportunity!

 

[blackcloud]

VRI, if true, would be bad really news - no other option, than an urgent rewire, but best see evidence of that. VRI will be either a reddy, brown colour, rubber, with a waxy, woven outer, or the same in black. The insulation goes hard, and crumbly, close to the terminals, PVC/plastic, should be fine.

Really if I need a more modern CU and theres no main earth and I have an old VIR cable and no RCD protection then that means I really need a whole house rewire?

 

[Murdochcat]

OP - best you get a 2nd opinion before you do anything.

Hope old is the property?

I’m guessing you didn’t bother with an EICR during the purchase process so you are jumping into the unknown.