are these really fire rated downlights?

[opps]

A friend is currently having his house rewired. The electricians have recommended that he uses low profile integrated LED (recessed) downlights upstairs because of the ceiling joists aren't very tall.

He would rather have the option of being able to swap bulbs out and so did a quick google search and came up with these

https://www.lyco.co.uk/integral-evofire-fire-rated-fixed-downlight-white.html

To my untrained eye they look like bog standard GU10 fittings but without any kind of fire hood. Do LED fitting not need any kind of hood? The specs say a max of 10W LED but I can't see how, in a momentary lapse of concentration, a homeowner would be prevented from fitting a halogen bulb.

 

[JohnW2]

To my untrained eye they look like bog standard GU10 fittings but without any kind of fire hood. Do LED fitting not need any kind of hood? The specs say a max of 10W LED but I can't see how, in a momentary lapse of concentration, a homeowner would be prevented from fitting a halogen bulb.

'Fire-rated' merely means that there is a seal which swells up in the event of a fire in the room below to prevent fire/smoke spreading through the hole in ceiling to parts of the building above, and are generally only needed when the ceiling is a fire barrier, most commonly because there is a flat under different ownership above.

'Fire rating' has nothing to do with the heat generated by the light, and if your friend has shallow joists, and particularly if there is thermal insulation involved, it may not be possible/practicable for him to have recessed ceiling lights. He would have to look at the specification of a particular light to find out what were the requirements for space around its body.

Kind Regards, John

 

[opps]

Thanks John.

I had always assumed that "fire rated" was a reference to the fitting's ability to extinguish the bulb in the event of it catching fire. I had no idea that it refers to the ability of the fitting to prevent a room fire from spreading up in to the ceiling void.

So to clarify, they probably aren't necessary on the top floor of a house?

Once again, thank you for replying.

 

[Adam_151]

Shouldn't be necessary, but that doesn't mean you can't fit them. In the bathroom though, you'll want ones that are sealed against the passage of moisure even if they are out of the zones, and quite often both properties come together.

You'll also want something like this in the loft: https://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-ha-dig250-downlight-insulation-guard-220mm/97932 which will allow you to maintain the manufacturers clearances for the fitting as well as allow you to insulate properly. It also provides a bit of a barrier to prevent items comming into contact with the fitting (much less of a worry in these LED days)

I'd always favor a proper LED fitting (by a reputable make) over a normal GU10 with an LED lamp; it means a householder can't change to a none LED light source accidentally which could be an issue if the fittings are in a lath and plaster ceiling, or simily clooser to the joist than one would like, or as you say, a fitting designed for only LED lamps, there are also many cheap LED lamps on online auction places which carry fraudulent approval labels and some how been found to be dangerous.

In addition the electronics in LED drivers are sensitive to heat, with an LED lamp in a standard GU10 downlight there is no guarentee its been tested in that combination and you might find issues with lamps failing prematurly, with a proper LED fitting its all been designed and tested as one unit so you are less likely to get issues like that

If you get something like a click incepter micro fitting, you'll have a proper designed LED fitting, the reliability is much better than a lot of LED lamps, and it comes with the click flow connectors prefitted, so no need to use a small joint box at each position, and if one fitting does fail under warrenty, then the householder can take it out and hae it swapped under guarentee themselves because its a plug in connector

 

[JohnW2]

I had always assumed that "fire rated" was a reference to the fitting's ability to extinguish the bulb in the event of it catching fire. I had no idea that it refers to the ability of the fitting to prevent a room fire from spreading up in to the ceiling void.

As I said, they are two totally separate issues. 'Firing rated' relates to prevention of spread of fire from the room below. Instructions regarding the required amount of space etc. around the fitting relate to preventing of the light causing a fire.

So to clarify, they probably aren't necessary on the top floor of a house?

Quite so - but you need to be sure that it can be installed in compliance with the manufacturer's instructions in order to prevent it being a fire risk.

Kind Regards, John