armoured cable

[nigel2212]

i am getting a fuseboard put into my shed at the rear of my garden and want to run a suitable cable down from the fuseboard in the house, what size cable and what kind of cable will i need, i will be using the shed as a work area for power tools.

Thanks

 

[ricicle]

This work is notifiable, which usually means leaving it to a registered Electrician. This in turn means letting the Electrician decide as he has to sign a cert. to say it has been designed safely and correctly.

 

[nigel2212]

i wanted to save money my putting the cable in place ready for the electrician to do his bit, by knowing the size and kinda of cable will save me money and time.

 

[ricicle]

Sort your Electrician, get him to size the cable and plan the route. You dig the trench and lay the cable, get him to check this before back - filling if he is happy.
Saving him the labour time for doing the donkey work. He can then do the rest.

 

[1john]

no one worth their salt is going to connect and certify a cable that they cant see throughout it's entirety. I would be concerned if they said they would too.

You cant size a cable to a shed without any information btw. do as others have said, get a spark around, ask them what they want you to do in regards to trench digging ect. They will get cable like SWA for cheaper than you too so best let them supply their own cable.
Also consider running a duct (buried at the correct depth) so you can pull through a new cable if you ever wish to up the supply or the cable gets damaged, you could run two ducts as you are digging the trench and keep one for comms cables.

 

[Aragorn84]

I had a spark in recently to price up a similar job for my landlord and he suggested that 6mm SWA would be his preferred choice for wiring up the garage.

4mm would likely be fine too (depending on the voltage drop calculations etc), but the cost difference is minimal, and the 6mm gives you some extra capacity.

I guess it depends exactly what powertools your using, if its just small hand tools and suchlike then 4mm would probably be plenty. If your looking at heavier things like lathes, welders, milling machines and suchlike then the larger the better really.

 

[Aragorn84]

1john: you say they can get the cable cheaper, but in reality this is not the case. Shopping online with companies like TLC-Direct often means you can undercut the electricians price for the cable after they've marked it up.

There was a post just recently about someone having been quoted £60-70quid for 100M of 2.5mm T&E by their spark, which TLC stock for just over 30 quid.

 

[1john]

1john: you say they can get the cable cheaper, but in reality this is not the case. Shopping online with companies like TLC-Direct often means you can undercut the electricians price for the cable after they've marked it up.

There was a post just recently about someone having been quoted £60-70quid for 100M of 2.5mm T&E by their spark, which TLC stock for just over 30 quid.

one post recently, maybe a one off from a bad spark, we never got the spec of the cable he was proposing to install either. i can get cable cheaper than tlc direct.

 

[Aragorn84]

But the question is how much do you mark it up by...

I'm not suggesting you shouldnt mark it up, after all you do need to pay for it, collect it, cart it around etc. Perhaps a 100% markup as in the above example is excessive, but as soon as your mark up brings the cost above what anyone can buy it for, its then available cheaper elsewhere...

Every business marks up all its products, wether its a electrical contractor, car mechanic or veterinarian. If the product is available cheaper, then i see no problem with the guy buying it himself, as long as its up to scratch and is properly certified to do the job.

Just the same as you can take your own brake pads along for the garage to change, or get a prescription from your vet and buy the drugs you require online.

 

[chapeau]

i wanted to save money my putting the cable in place ready for the electrician to do his bit, by knowing the size and kinda of cable will save me money and time.

You are probably advised to speak to an electrician first as how you provide an earth to a shed is dependent on all sorts of things and it could possibly change what you put in the trench. As always, get three quotes, and if they give you a bad attitude about doing stuff yourself and supplying your own materials then tell them not to bother and move to the next one.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm not suggesting you shouldnt mark it up, after all you do need to pay for it, collect it, cart it around etc. Perhaps a 100% markup as in the above example is excessive, but as soon as your mark up brings the cost above what anyone can buy it for, its then available cheaper elsewhere...

Every business marks up all its products, wether its a electrical contractor, car mechanic or veterinarian. If the product is available cheaper, then i see no problem with the guy buying it himself, as long as its up to scratch and is properly certified to do the job.

Just the same as you can take your own brake pads along for the garage to change, or get a prescription from your vet and buy the drugs you require online.

The electrician will have arrived at whatever balance of competitiveness and net income works for him. If he's trousering large amounts of excess money, no matter how charged for, he'll eventually run out of work.

If he's not trousering enough to pay his bills. eventually he'll go bust.

So assuming he's reached equilibrium, his mix of earnings will be so-much from labour and so-much from markup, if you deny him the latter he will simply increase the former - he will have no choice in the matter if he wants to stay in business.

So overall you will be paying more, as you'll have materials at a higher base price than he would have paid, plus his displaced markup anyway.

Simples.

 

[1john]

I'm not suggesting you shouldnt mark it up, after all you do need to pay for it, collect it, cart it around etc. Perhaps a 100% markup as in the above example is excessive, but as soon as your mark up brings the cost above what anyone can buy it for, its then available cheaper elsewhere...

Every business marks up all its products, wether its a electrical contractor, car mechanic or veterinarian. If the product is available cheaper, then i see no problem with the guy buying it himself, as long as its up to scratch and is properly certified to do the job.

Just the same as you can take your own brake pads along for the garage to change, or get a prescription from your vet and buy the drugs you require online.

The electrician will have arrived at whatever balance of competitiveness and net income works for him. If he's trousering large amounts of excess money, no matter how charged for, he'll eventually run out of work.

If he's not trousering enough to pay his bills. eventually he'll go bust.

So assuming he's reached equilibrium, his mix of earnings will be so-much from labour and so-much from markup, if you deny him the latter he will simply increase the former - he will have no choice in the matter if he wants to stay in business.

So overall you will be paying more, as you'll have materials at a higher base price than he would have paid, plus his displaced markup anyway.

Simples.

perfectly put.

 

[Aragorn84]

Ye i guess this is a valid point.

Finding a decent tradesman is clearly the best approach, unfortunately the best tradesman is not always the cheapest (or the dearest), and unlike say a car garage, you dont tend to get electricians in that often.

With a car (for example) you tend to be in and out of garages getting smaller maintenance tasks carried out more frequently, so you can try some different places and get a feel for whos decent or not. For example as a matter of principle i wont use any garages that charge the full £54.95 for an MOT test, otoh if you take someone up on a £25 MOT, they're likely to try and wring more work out of the job and use the £25 test as a loss leader to get you in the door.

With a spark it tends to be more one-offs, so its a bit more challenging to know where to turn if you've got a big job on!

 

[1john]

Ye i guess this is a valid point.

Finding a decent tradesman is clearly the best approach, unfortunately the best tradesman is not always the cheapest (or the dearest), and unlike say a car garage, you dont tend to get electricians in that often.

With a car (for example) you tend to be in and out of garages getting smaller maintenance tasks carried out more frequently, so you can try some different places and get a feel for whos decent or not. For example as a matter of principle i wont use any garages that charge the full £54.95 for an MOT test, otoh if you take someone up on a £25 MOT, they're likely to try and wring more work out of the job and use the £25 test as a loss leader to get you in the door.

With a spark it tends to be more one-offs, so its a bit more challenging to know where to turn if you've got a big job on!

this isn't completely true either, an mot is carried out to guidelines, not opinions. If you think that the £25 mot has been unfair you can challenge it, same with the £54.95 one. They cant just fail you on stuff. Having a road safe car is something else that is quite important as well as having safe wiring in your house, a safe gas installation, and a structurally sound property.

As with any trade, getting quotes is generally free (a cup of tea or coffee can help) you can show the guy or girl what you want doing, talk it through with them, and get a feel for that person.

A few things worth bearing in mind is

1 - Do you like this person (they may be in your house for some time)
2 - Are they or do they seem to be interested in the job
3 - Do you feel they have asked you anough information about what you want done
4 - Have you said to yourself yet 'i didn't think of that'
5 - Do you feel you can trust this person.

Ask for an itemised quote with the full spec of what is being supplied and installed too. The reason being is that i could get a basic dual RCD consumer unit for £80 or i could install a Wylex or MK main switch up front, RCBO on every circuit which would cost £250 in materials alone.

Get lots of people out to quote, emsure they are registered with the 'competent persons scheme' . Sadly don't be suprised that some people dont quote or turn up.

 

[Aragorn84]

You may think an MOT is an MOT but this isnt really the case.

If the garage tells you your headlight alignment is out and its going to cost you a tenner to rectify it, would you say forget it and take it away to check it yourself and rectify, or pay the tenner? I've spoken to people who EVERY time they (and most of their family) went for an MOT were told their headlight alignment was out by their local garage, which i'm sure you'll agree isnt really possible.

Same with any component really, our car had an advisory on its MOT 2 weeks ago about rear wheel bearings having a tiny amount of play, had the tester wanted to make money, he could simply have said theres too much play and failed it, and had i been most normal punters, i'd have then paid the garage to fit a pair of wheel bearings. Ok i could have disagreed with him, taken it to appeal etc, but only beucase i've worked on plenty of vehicles do i know how much play is acceptable, most normal people would just go with what the man says. Also, if you appeal, you need to leave the vehicle as is until VOSA have inspected it, so your then without a car.

There are many components on a vehicle that dont just fail. The wear out gradually and its upto the tester to know whats safe and what isnt. Some garages will fail things on components that while worn, would be perfectly servicable for another year, just to get the money out of you. Just like some electricians/plumbers/whatever will charge you over the odds for things if they think they can get away with it.

Finding a garage that isnt going to rip you off in the first place is always the best course of action, but it can take a few tries to find one.

My point was simply that unlike a garage where you tend to visit at least once a year, or perhaps more often, so you can try quite a few and get a feel for them, with a tradesman like a spark its always more difficult to make that choice. All you can go on is the quote they provide and how they come across, and we all know that the biggest cowboys often talk a great talk.