Attaching fancy shower head to solid wall/ seems too heavy

[alexhayes]

Shower head is:

Its going into a solid wall thats 1 brick thick.

It was suggested that i use a 1/2 inch bsp backplate elbow, sink it into the existing wall to a desired depth, plug wall screw in elbow and then screw head in once tiled.

Seems easy but back plateelbow i have only has 2 screw points, layout
0
0----0 surely a 3 screw one 0 0, would be better?

the head is damm heavy and its quite long, so produces quite a turning force onto the backplate, with it full of water i dont think the backplate will hold.

It had been suggested to me that if i sunk the backplate into the wall i could then screw in the head, tile over and then the nut could be screwed hand tight onto the tile (giving some support) and then the chrome nut cover could be slipped over that nut.

Looking at the head design, the chrome nut cover is not movable, its designed so that you prob have a plasterboard/aquaboard panel, you cut your 16mm hole, slot head through, chrome ring sits flush on tile, and then you tighten the nut from behind.

BUT as i`m doing this on a solid wall, i cant see how the buggery i`m going to be able to tighten the nut to help give some support.

If i do sink the backplate, screw head in and then tighten nut onto the tile, i will be left witha 5mm gap between the tile and the non moving chrome nut cover/ support.


Please help its doing my fruit in.

 

[ChrisR]

WHat's on the back of the wall? Airing cupd?
If so
you could use...looking for picture of what I mean...
Only one I could find:
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/project_images/installing_an_outside_tap/Tap pipe and backplate.jpg
You certainly can get backplate elbows with 3 screws...

http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/graphics/17718.gif
Or you could possibly add a supporting plate - use two, one up one down: (the hole is for 1/2" bsp)

http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/graphics/11478.gif
or tap extension
like these but very short - any pl merchant will have
http://www.pulsardirect.co.uk/plumbing-supplies/addtocart.asp?ProductCatId=214&ProductSubId=59

 

[alexhayes]

Cheers Chris,

The wall backs onto the starirway/landing so i cant really get to the back of it.

Looks like investing in a 3 screw backplate elbow, the larger the better really.

One thing concerns me though, the thread length is approx 65mm long, if i sink that into a one brick thick wall i`m near as dammit going to come out the other side, or the backplate fixing wont have much to grip into.

I`m thinking of chopping the thread back to about 40mm, thus making it a littme more sensible, can you see me messing up the thread onthe head? dont fancy paying for another!

ringing up tech help line as well, i wonder what advice i get.

 

[alexhayes]

just found this thread:

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=30303

which is exactly the same problem i have, but no answer!

can i just cut the shower head thread to suit a nice fit with the backplate? and i just use pfte tape on the fitting to ensure its water tight?

 

[croydoncorgi]

Designers of shower roses that weigh too much and / or fit on the end of long horizontal chrome tubes need their bottoms smacked!

Even when there's a good solid wall to take 3 fixings for a backplate elbow or somesuch, the leverage applied to the fitting by a heavy rose and / or a long pipe is close to shearing it off its base.

Quite apart from that, in many cases you CAN'T get behind the back wall of the shower to reinforce the fitting without smashing out tiles and all sorts! There seems to be a conspiracy of silence and ignorance between shower designers and moronic builders who construct shower cubicles out of neatly tiled cardboard!

I recently resorted to a vertical support fitted into the ceiling above the shower. The supply tube was near-enough 15mm, so a chrome munsen ring above the shower head fitted and did not look too bad. Bit of chrome-plated 15mm copper tube slipped neatly over the steel studding carrying the munsen ring. 50mm hole in plasterboard ceiling revealed a 2 inch gap and another (double) plasterboard layer. 50mm through that too, fix munsen ring base to 150mm of batten, feed it through hole and position across it, thread studding through centre of plaster cut-out from holesaw, fit to munsen ring on shower pipe, make good with filler around cut-out piece. Job done!

Making a special support from odds-and-ends would have been completely unnecessary if shower suppliers offered proper support accessories for their flashy, overweight junk - but they don't!

 

[Nige F]

knock right thru the wall and fix a flying duck over it on t` other side .....good enough for the Duckworth`s

 

[alexhayes]

You dont by any chance have a pic of this munsen ring you mentioned? it seems about the only logical solution.

I rang up the technical helpline, and got told a backplate elbow should be suffice for the weight (yeah right, i`m no builder but it it just doesnt seem like it will hold to me)

 

[ChrisR]

If you can get a good screw fixing it will - ever tried to rip an outside tap off a wall?
Yep if you do cut the threaded spigot, use plenty ptfe .
Munsen rings are bit Industrial...
follow the link: & search on item number
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/graphics/7716.gif

 

[alexhayes]

Its not the ripping off of the pipe, its the moment thats induced on the fitting. The shower head is about 450mm long, and just me holding its weight by hand on the threaded bit is a struggle.

I`m popping round to plumbers merchants to see what they have, i`ll go with a 3 screw fitting. I`m then thinking of fabricating some support to sit under the bottom edge of the bsp connector to support it the head from sagging.

Ideally we could do with a sunken bsp elbow, attached to a strong but thin mounting plate. meaning you can make the desired hole in a solid wall, and mount the plate onto the wall to be tiled, and then just tile over to suit (also benefits from less leverage with the plate being on the inside of the wall) * patent pending.

Or i`ll encase the elbow within its hole with some high strength conc (thinking about the moment though, thats not a good idea as conc is brittle and crap in tension)

hmm suck it and see i think...cheers for input though, its not as easy as i first thought.

 

[denso13]

Or i`ll encase the elbow within its hole with some high strength conc (thinking about the moment though, thats not a good idea as conc is brittle and rubbish in tension

Bit of rebar tossed in during the pour would be the answer then

Seriously though a three point fixed wallplate elbow should be fine. Don't go "intentionally inducing a moment" on the fitting as at 450mm long there would not be much you could to protect it against someone doing a chin up on it.

 

[ChrisR]

Already suggested that above.
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/graphics/11478.gif

They're galvanised steel iirc. Not threaded but you can get a variety of 1/2 bsp backnuts.

You can of course put the screws the "wrong" way through a backplate elbow's holes, bolts into a plate eg if you want.

If you use something strong on the compression connection of the backplate elbow (which is 1/2" bsp male) and bury that in the wall, the screws will hold it easily. Stooge around things like rad extensions and you'll find chunky brass tubes. You could use galvanised steel even.

The C of G of the fitting is about 200mm from the wall, so if you have 200mm of vertical strong stuff the force on the screws will be the same as the weight of the fitting. Each screw would probably hold ten times that if it's a good wall.

Here you go, 200mm long, £1.24, thick brass.

 

[alexhayes]

ah, i get you now on that above^... superb.