AV wiring question

[BinkieB]

Hullo. Newbie so please be gentle...

I'm refurbishing a house (i.e. completely gutting and starting again including rewiring). We don't watch TV much (currently don't even have freeview) but want to put in the wiring to allow for as much flexibility in future as possible.

This is what I'm planning to do - I'd appreciate any comments / suggestions:

1. Install Freeview Satellite and Freeview Aerial on roof.
2. Run 5 x coax cable from roof to hub three floors below
3. Run 2 x coax cable from hub to each room in house
4. Put quadplex plate in each room (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CX241M.html)

Note that at the moment I'm not trying to work out what I want to watch on it, what kind of switching / how many boxes etc I want. I just want something on the roof (because of access while scaffolding is up) and wiring that will enable me to do pretty much anything in the future.

My understanding is that 5 cables from the roof to the hub will allow for any combination of satellite / tv aerial / fm aerial that one might sensibly want, and that 2 cables from the hub position to each room will allow for all the variations of feeds to and from rooms you might want for most multiroom configurations.

I should add that I am also putting in a Cat 5e network which will have 2 cables to each TV point as well. I have been advised that in a domestic setting the chance of getting Cat 6 installed to a standard which would deliver its enhanced performance over Cat 5e is slim.

Does this all sound sensible? Anything I'm missing?

I'd particularly appreciate recommendations for both the coax and network cable.

I understand the coax should have impedance of 75 ohm. Would something like this do me: http://www.bryant-unlimited.co.uk/iqs/cpti.570/dbitemid.503/sfa.view/cables.html

Regarding the Cat5e cable, the main choices seem to be whether the shielding is F/UTP or U/UTP (?) and whether the conductor strand is solid or shielded. Any advice on this choice gratefully received, as my technical knowledge doesn't extend much beyond picking a pretty colour.

(I should also add that an electrician will be actually running all the cable, I just want to make sure I spec the right cable to go in.)

Thanks in advance!

 

[BinkieB]

Me again...

Electrician is persuading me to go with Cat6. I'm looking at this shielded Cat6 cable from RS - 305m delivered with VAT for £187:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/...od=searchProducts&searchTerm=556-382+&x=0&y=0

From searching here and elsewhere, WF100 cable seems to be most often recommended. 250m drum delivered with VAT for £87:

http://www.aerialshack.com/250m-drum-webro-wf100-double-screened-coax-cable-p-751.html

 

[gblades]

With network cables stick with unshielded. You only want shielded in a few cases such as you are pushing the 100m maximum cable length, its located in a very high electrical noise area such as a machine shop or its a high security area.

Solid cable should be used for fixed wiring as its the type designed to be put in the punch down network sockets. Stranded in patch cables so they are more flexible and less likely to break.

WF100 is indeed ideal cable. If you go with Sky HD in the future it will require both cables so perhaps 3 cables to downstairs living room incase you want Sky recording 2 channels and you want to watch a 3rd on freeview.

 

[gblades]

You might also wish to consider running some speaker cables aswell incase you want a surround sound setup in the future.

 

[ChrisFrost]

Hullo. Newbie so please be gentle...

I'm refurbishing a house (i.e. completely gutting and starting again including rewiring). We don't watch TV much (currently don't even have freeview) but want to put in the wiring to allow for as much flexibility in future as possible.

This is what I'm planning to do - I'd appreciate any comments / suggestions:

1. Install Freeview Satellite and Freeview Aerial on roof.
2. Run 5 x coax cable from roof to hub three floors below
3. Run 2 x coax cable from hub to each room in house
4. Put quadplex plate in each room (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CX241M.html)

Note that at the moment I'm not trying to work out what I want to watch on it, what kind of switching / how many boxes etc I want. I just want something on the roof (because of access while scaffolding is up) and wiring that will enable me to do pretty much anything in the future.

My understanding is that 5 cables from the roof to the hub will allow for any combination of satellite / tv aerial / fm aerial that one might sensibly want, and that 2 cables from the hub position to each room will allow for all the variations of feeds to and from rooms you might want for most multiroom configurations.

I should add that I am also putting in a Cat 5e network which will have 2 cables to each TV point as well. I have been advised that in a domestic setting the chance of getting Cat 6 installed to a standard which would deliver its enhanced performance over Cat 5e is slim.

Does this all sound sensible? Anything I'm missing?

I'd particularly appreciate recommendations for both the coax and network cable.

I understand the coax should have impedance of 75 ohm. Would something like this do me: http://www.bryant-unlimited.co.uk/iqs/cpti.570/dbitemid.503/sfa.view/cables.html

Regarding the Cat5e cable, the main choices seem to be whether the shielding is F/UTP or U/UTP (?) and whether the conductor strand is solid or shielded. Any advice on this choice gratefully received, as my technical knowledge doesn't extend much beyond picking a pretty colour.

(I should also add that an electrician will be actually running all the cable, I just want to make sure I spec the right cable to go in.)

Thanks in advance!

From what you've said I think you're already heading in the wrong direction.

Let's start with the aerial because that's easy. Good quality TV roof aerial + FM aerial (not a round one, they're rubbish) and a DAB aerial. 3 x coax down to a loft box aerial amp that will combine the three signals. Distribute to each room and terminate at a TV/FM diplex plate. Add an extra run of coax per room if you wish as a backup in case the first gets damaged.

You now have standard Freeview and Freeview HD reception ability to each TV (DVB-T & T2), FM & DAB radio reception ability. If you think that there's a chance that you'll have Sky and want a cheap and easy way to distribute up to 4 box signals on RF around the house then chuck in some uplink cables (WF100 for RF 2 out back up to the loft box).

Next.... Satellite.

*** Trust me on this - You want keep the satellite distribution system away from the TV distribution system ***

Satellite works differently to aerial signals. If you want to have multiple satellite receivers then you should consider a Quatro LNB (note: this is different from a standard Quad LNB) and a multi-switch.

A satellite box can ask for any one of four signal states - Hi-Band Horizontal or Vertical, and Lo-Band Horizontal or Vertical. If you put a satellite signal through the loft amp as you were planning there would be clashes.

The Quatro LNB delivers all four states simultaneously. The multi-switch handles the request from the various satellite receivers and routes the correct signal state. With a multi-switch system you can have twin-tuner Freesat PVRs. You can't do that with a Quad LNB.

Satellite dish point to hub is 4 cables. Hub to each room is n+1 cables. Personally I'd go 4 cables per room: two cables to wherever a box might go, one to a possible TV point if it's wall mounted, then +1 spare per location. Cable is cheap. Hacking out walls to replace a damaged cable isn't.

As for the rest of your system you really need to start to narrow down your likely choices of AV gear. Until you've done that then you'll be groping in the dark. You also need to think about control. Will you use keypads, IR over CAT relays or something else.

Chuck in way more Cat cable than you think you'll need. I've been advising clients to cable up to accessible wall sockets but also behind the TV and behind any AV point for the last 5 years. They're now finding that the new TVs and Blu-ray players need those network connections, so the planning has paid off.

Audio systems:

 

[BinkieB]

Thanks both for your replies.

gblades - that makes perfect sense on the solid network cable. With the shielding, I think the electrician was suggesting this because the cables would cross ring main power cable in places (although obviously they would be kept apart where possible). Would shielded cable help at all with this, or is it simply not worth it?

ChrisFrost - thanks for all the detail! Alas, for all sorts of reasons I'm not going to be able to decide the kit now, so want to do something which gives me enough flexibility for the future. To make sure I've understood, you suggest:

1 x TV aerial
1 x FM aerial
1 x DAB aerial

each requiring a coax to a loft box which combines the three signals. That loft box has one coax to each room (plus an optional spare in cae of damage).

With the satellite, initially it is only going in because it's easy to do it while the scaffolding is up and the other work is being done. In the first instance, I don't think we're going to use it. So as we're doing this for future flexibility, it makes sense to allow for multiple satellite receivers as you suggest. (I assume it's still possible to use a Quatro LNB with a single satellite receive in the first instance?)

We then need 4 x coax cable from the LNB to the hub / multiswitch. I understand I then need 2 to each possible box. I understand why a spare. The fourth for a wall mounted TV I don't quite follow, but I'm sure I'm being dense.

I have no idea about control at the moment, but from your post I assume I have multiple control options which don't need additional cable?

And agreed re Cat cable. I'm going to put 2 to each TV point.

A final question about the wall panels. You suggest a diplexed TV / FM panel, and I'm assuming that one cable goes into the back of this and splits across the two sockets (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CX122M.html).

Can I use a quadplexed panel (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CX241M.html) with one cable across the TV/FM, and two cables for each of the satellite sockets? Or have I not understood how it works?

Thanks for your patience - I think I've nearly got it...

 

[ChrisFrost]

To make sure I've understood, you suggest:

1 x TV aerial
1 x FM aerial
1 x DAB aerial

each requiring a coax to a loft box which combines the three signals. That loft box has one coax to each room (plus an optional spare in cae of damage).

Yep, I think you've got that. The aerial mast has three aerials. One cable from each to where the loft box will be.... Doesn't have to be the loft... could be the hub point somewhere else in the house, but that's the general idea.

(I assume it's still possible to use a Quatro LNB with a single satellite receive in the first instance?)

No. Quatro LNBs are fixed output. If you plug one of the four cables in to a Sky receiver you would only get 1/4 of the channels.

You need to do some reading on how satellite LNBs work. I've given you the basics in the previous post. Here's a little more detail:

A normal quad LNB is four LNBs in a single housing. Each LNB is independently driven from the satellite receiver. As you press Ch Up or Ch Down on the Sky remote the satellite receiver sends a signal voltage to the LNB to change "channel group". So the LNB is capable of receiving all four channel groups, but only one at a time, and that's controlled by the satellite receiver making the appropriate selection depending on the channel you want to watch.

Let's say you plug one output of a standard Quad LNB in to your loft box distribution system as you originally planned, and sent the signal to those quadplex plates. Plug in one single input satellite receiver (a basic Sky box) and it'll work fine. Now plug in a second basic Sky box in another room. All of a sudden things will stop working properly. Let's pretend that BBC1 is on Channel group 1, and ITV is on Channel group 2, and those are the channels you want to watch in different rooms. The two boxes are asking the single LNB feed to be on different channel groups at the same time. There's a conflict. It won't work.

That's why distributing satellite via a loftbox/quadples (or triplex) plate system is a bad idea for anything other than a simple one box basic Sky/Freesat system.

We then need 4 x coax cable from the LNB to the hub / multiswitch. I understand I then need 2 to each possible box. I understand why a spare. The fourth for a wall mounted TV I don't quite follow, but I'm sure I'm being dense.

You're trying to plan a wiring scheme for the unknown. That means covering as many bases as possible without yet installing expensive hardware.

Let' say you buy a TV for the bedroom with Freesat or Freesat HD as well as the regular Freeview tuner. So your TV has two aerial sockets - one for the standard coax plug and the second on a satellite connector. You don't particularly want to have a shelf with satellite receiver in the bedroom at this stage, but you would like to use the TV's Freesat tner because there are some channels on Freesat that you don't get on Freeview. How are you going to get those channels if you don't provide a satellite feed where the TV is going to go? Remember, you're planning for the unknown. Putting the cable in now means you have the option in the future. That's the whole point of the exercise.

I have no idea about control at the moment, but from your post I assume I have multiple control options which don't need additional cable?

It all depends on what you want to do. If all you want is TV and a bit of distributed Sky then some Sky eyes on the TVs will do.

But if you want to play movies from a central server, and tune in to different radio stations, and have that music piped in to the en suite while someone watches the Grand Prix in the bedroom, or choose tracks from your PC stored music collection, or switch to the CCTV cam over the garage, etc etc etc You get the idea?

What it comes down to is how far you want to go to get the entertainment of your choice in the places you want it at a quality you think is good enough. After that it's a question of what you plan for the property. Is it a long term family home or a development property for sale. If the latter, what's the potential buyer looking for and most importantly are they willing to pay for the extra creature comforts. A six bed detached in Sunningdale attracts a buyer with very different expectations to the potential buyer of a 1 bed back-to-back in Batley

And agreed re Cat cable. I'm going to put 2 to each TV point.

A final question about the wall panels. You suggest a diplexed TV / FM panel, and I'm assuming that one cable goes into the back of this and splits across the two sockets (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CX122M.html).

Can I use a quadplexed panel (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CX241M.html) with one cable across the TV/FM, and two cables for each of the satellite sockets? Or have I not understood how it works?

The diplexed and triplexed panels use a single cable. The quadplex panels use an extra cable from the loft box for the second satellite feed....BUT.... this is only designed to support a house with ONE satellite receiver. If you want to have multiple satellite receivers now or in the future then you are stuffed if you wire everything through a loftbox & quadplex system. Here's a diagram I've edited to illustrate this...

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[gblades]

The normal guideline when running network cables is that it is perfectly fine for the network cable to cross the power cables at 90 degrees even if they are practically touching. If the network cables are running parallel then there should be a few cm gap between them.
If you have to run mains and power inside the same piece of trunking then you might wish to consider shielded cable. It is normally considerably more expensive though.