Bad smells and waste connections.

[pilgrim1]

Gents,
having ripped apart my bathroom recently I find that the waste for the sink, bath and loo all run to the same very, very smelly soil pipe. I have a couple of questions before I reconnect everything.

First as the soil for the loo is directly above the waste for the sink and bath as shown here:-

I have both bottle trap type waste pipes for sink and shower, but I'm worried that the horrible smell that used to infest the bathroom will still creep back, any other steps I can take to reduce this problem?

Second is the old sink pipes are trenched behind tiles and luckily are still good for my new connections. I plan to connect them to the new shower tray in a similar manner to this :-

I'm thinking to convert directly from the 32mm and make the whole run 40mm, although I've been advised to keep the run from the sink to the T-piece 32mm and make the rest 40mm. Any advise or thoughts from the forum experts?

Thanks in advance.

ChrisC.

 

[Paul Barker]

Try an antisiphon sink waste and an hepvo trap in line just before the soil stack. also check there is a vent on the soil stack.

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

The idea of having a trap is so that the water held in them acts as a seal to prevent the smells getting in. I would advise that at least you change the bottle trap on your basin [which I assume you are erroneously calling a sink] to an anti vacuum trap.
Pipe sizing wise a basin needs a 32mm waste pipe and if it really is a sink it should be 40mm. Running 40mm right up to the basin wont do any harm
Might be worth fitting a HepV0 valve to the shower tray

Im interested as to the manufacture of that soil pipe branch in your first diagram, especially if it is as you have drawn it, in one piece with the boss connection directly under the wc connection. Any chance of taking a close look to find out the make?

 

[pilgrim1]

The idea of having a trap is so that the water held in them acts as a seal to prevent the smells getting in. I would advise that at least you change the bottle trap on your basin [which I assume you are erroneously calling a sink] to an anti vacuum trap.

Ah OK, thank you, it seems I got some bogus advice about this in the past. I shall visit my local plumbers merchant in the morning. As for erroneously calling it a sink, I was unaware plumber types were so pedantic Actually I wasn't being erroneous at all. In Northern lad speak it's a sink not a basin. A basin is for girls and posh people Anyway the Oxford English has this to sayt about the word sink: -
noun a fixed basin with a water supply and outflow pipe
That sums up nicely my sink/basin thingy

Pipe sizing wise a basin needs a 32mm waste pipe and if it really is a sink it should be 40mm. Running 40mm right up to the basin wont do any harm
Might be worth fitting a HepV0 valve to the shower tray

If I knew what at HepV0 was I would gladly fit one...I'll Google that one. Thanks for the tip.

I’m interested as to the manufacture of that soil pipe branch in your first diagram, especially if it is as you have drawn it, in one piece with the boss connection directly under the wc connection. Any chance of taking a close look to find out the make?

No problem, most of it however boxed in now, but I'll happily have a look for you. I have the electricity switched off down there at the moment; however I'll take a look before I go to work in the morning, when I have a little more light

It was a bit of a mess when I first took it apart (excluding the expanding foam, boss and cat litter) It's a rather odd connector leaks alot. Looks to me like some part of it is missing (some kind of cap for the front) I’m not sure it’s one piece either; I was drawing this from memory, however my other half reminds me I have some photo's. I It’s difficult to tell as most of the bottom half is buried in a concrete floor (sic). Attached are some photos I took when I pulled it all to bits. Be happy it’s not scratch-and-sniff; I had to work in very short shifts and only before meals ;-(

I’m drop in to the forum from work tomorrow and let you know who made it. Thanks once again for your invaluable advice & assistance. Much appreciated.


Regards

ChrisC.

 

[pilgrim1]

Try an antisiphon sink waste and an hepvo trap in line just before the soil stack. also check there is a vent on the soil stack.

Hi Paul, thanks for the reply. I'll look up the hepvo, not really sure what that is. I don't think the soil stack has a vent. I'll have to climb around in the loft, but I don't remember seeing one. As far as I am aware, it comes in through the bathroom floor, up three more floors & stops in the loft with a closed cap. The house was built in 1975'ish (IMHO an era of many of many crimes against property and good taste ) so not sure if they even cared then. If I were to put in a vent I assume this would mean poking a hole in my house somewhere, which I'm not keen to do! I do have a window in the loft, I suppose I could duct it out that way?!?

Thanks for the post, very much appreciated.

Regards

ChrisC.

 

[pilgrim1]

Gents,
found the HepV0, one quick question, on the web site it suggests that I should use one valve at the sink and another and the shower. I had imagined (from your posts) just sticking one close to the soil stack. Is this simply that they want to sell me double the kit? Or should I follow?

Regards

ChrisC.

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

I do the 'calling it a sink' sin myself regularly, but on here it is often necessary to differentiate so that we know what we are dealing with.

If you can get an anti-vac trap [or the more expensive HepV0 valve] on your basin and a HepV0 valve on your shower I will guarantee that you will have no problems.
Putting a HepV0 on after the waste pipe tee will give the additional assurance you requested but is not really necessary

Sometimes it is not possible to put a hepV0 valve onto the shower tray and you will often have to buy a solid waste fitting to get this on anyway in which case you could try to get one on to the pipe before the tee.

The problem we find when a shower and a basin are on the same line is that when the wash basin is running full bore that you can get a positive pressure on the shower trap resulting in those horrible gasses bubbling up through it.
Putting a valve after the tee could increase the bubbling effect You wont get the smell from the drains but the air from the waste pipe which wont be so bad.
Your idea of increasing the basin waste pipe size to 40mm would reduce the likelihood of that pipe running at full bore so could actually be beneficial as I see it. There isnt a book anywhere that tells you to do or not to do this btw

About the branch make. Thanks for the pics. It appears that the waste pipe actually goes down into your floor and then into a boss below the branch. I had hoped to have come across a fitting that you have skilfully drawn but AFAIK doesnt exist.
The problem I have is that I am working on some flats and all of them have the wastes basin, sink, bath, washing machine and WC from one direction. This means that I have to re-route either the waste or the soil pipe connection out into the room near the stack

 

[pilgrim1]

I do the 'calling it a sink' sin myself regularly, but on here it is often necessary to differentiate so that we know what we are dealing with.

I appreciate that. I'll try to remember that for next time.

If you can get an anti-vac trap [or the more expensive HepV0 valve] on your basin and a HepV0 valve on your shower I will guarantee that you will have no problems.

I picked up a HepV0 valve today. Thanks for the advice on this one.

Sometimes it is not possible to put a hepV0 valve onto the shower tray and you will often have to buy a solid waste fitting to get this on anyway in which case you could try to get one on to the pipe before the tee.

I'm hoping this will fit, shouldn't be a problem. I need to change the layout a bit and replace the corner knuckle bends with some 92.5 degree bends to get me round more easily, however that should be that.

The problem we find when a shower and a basin are on the same line is that when the wash basin is running full bore that you can get a positive pressure on the shower trap resulting in those horrible gasses bubbling up through it.

I was puzzled about where you suggest it goes (me being thick here I guess), my thinking is it would be better the run directly to the soil stack, meaning any smells are eliminated at source. However I presume the slow of flow through the valve would cause the problems you describe above.

There isn't a book anywhere that tells you to do or not to do this btw

I'll take your hands-on experience over a book any day of the week.

About the branch make. Thanks for the pics. It appears that the waste pipe actually goes down into your floor and then into a boss below the branch. I had hoped to have come across a fitting that you have skilfully drawn but AFAIK doesnt exist.

Yeah sorry about that, as I explained I had to draw this from memory. I'd forgotten I'd taken some pictures, in case I couldn't cure the leaking with the intention of posting here. However like most the problem plumbing jobs, seemed to be a case of throwing enough goo at the problem in this case silicone

The problem I have is that I am working on some flats and all of them have the wastes basin, sink, bath, washing machine and WC from one direction. This means that I have to re-route either the waste or the soil pipe connection out into the room near the stack

I see, this would have been a bit useful then I do actually have a soil pipe just like the one in the diagram in the upstairs bathroom. You won't like it though, it does however work and I was stunned when I found it. They have tied a 40mm boss-strap around the waste pipe and cut a hole in the stack and jammed the pipe in it! Truly horrible but it seems to work, rather oddly much better than the one in the photo

Once again slugbaby it's been an education. I'm no plumber, so I can't reciprocate, however if you ever have any computer/software problems I'm your man

Regards

ChrisC