Baffling Thermostatic Shower Valve Problem

[bodger1]

I can't get my head around what the problem might be here. I've recently fitted an Ultra Ecco twin control shower valve. Prior to connecting the valve there was cold water coming out of the cold water pipe and hot water coming out of the hot water pipe. After connecting I checked the valve was working, i.e. water was coming out, I didn't check the thermostat though.

Anyway after tiling the shower cubicle and fitting the shower doors I prepared for my first shower. Here's where the problem lies, the cold water doesn't appear to be getting through, i.e. the water is very hot and the thermostat has little or no effect. When I turn off the hot supply no water comes out of the shower at all - surely the cold water should come out I asked myself?

The shower valve has a minimum operating pressure requirement of 0.1 Bar and is suitable for a gravity fed system. Sorry I should've mentioned the cold water supply is from a tank in the loft and the hot water from the cylinder in the airing cupboard.

I've checked the tank in the loft for any blockage but there wasn't one. Apart from that I can't think what the problem could be. Unless the cold water pressure isn't powerful enough, but it must be more than 0.1 Bar!?

Also another thing I can't understand is the valve allegedly has an anti scald cut off which kicks in if the cold water supply fails, which in this case doesn't appear to be getting through the valve?

If anyone has encountered a similar issue or has any idea what the problem is I'd be very grateful.

 

[seco services]

is it connected the right way hot/cold feed to the mixer ?

 

[bodger1]

Yes.

 

[ChrisR]

It's worth triple checking the H & C are on the right connections, for the valve to go up the way you have it, and that there isn't some ability to reverse it which has unwittingly been invoked.

Even a concealed mixer should be serviceable from the front, give or take a bead of silicone, so it shouldn't be a disaster if it really is broken. If you have a water-capable vacuum cleaner/carpet cleaner you could try sucking at the those. It would be too risky to try it with a "dry" one in case you got water into the motor

 

[buck51]

Have you checked it, How was the hot / cold inlets identified? as this is the most probable cause, and you would not be the first one to have installed it the wrong way round

 

[bodger1]

Definitely not connected the wrong way. The valve has hot written on one entry - the left hand one. The old valve was the same set up so all I've done is connect the old pipes which were in the correct position to the new valve. Even I couldn't bodge that up!!!

Just had a chat with borther in law and he suggested it may be an air lock - any thoughts?

 

[buck51]

What happens if you turn the thermostatic valve from one extreem to the other?

 

[bodger1]

The valve is fitted with two control knobs a flow control (to the shower head) and a temperature control/temperature override knob. With the flow control on full and the temperature control on hot - hot comes out. When I then turn the temperature control towards cold it stays hot and eventually goes to a trickle and then off.

I'm not sure if it might have something to do with the temperature override control. Set at 38C you can adjust the maximum temp upwards or downwards, by pressing the override button and turning it clockwise (decrease) or anti-clockwise (increase). I've tried turning it as far clockwise as it will go (no water comes out) and then adjusting it slowly clockwise (until some water starts to come out) on the assumption if the cold is getting through this should allow the maximum amount of cold water through. Needless to say it comes out hot!

Would an air lock in the cold feed prevent water from getting to the valve? Or could it be a cold water pressure problem? Or what's the chance the valve is just knackered?

 

[wonderb0y]

You could try taking the shower vale out and then turn on the the cold supply, so water should run out from the shower casing without going through the valve and see what the flows like, this should also help clear any air thats built up, also theres usually filters on the inlets of the shower i'd say check these but that might be difficult if it's concealed

 

[buck51]

I think we are all of the same oppinion, You need to go and check the connections
Ok so you wont take our advise
So I will try to prove to you why we have come to our conclusions
In the normal run of events the valve would be fluctuating about the mid position, ie. mixing hot and cold water,
And if for some strange reason there was no cold water to the valve, only hot then the valve would swing fully to the cold position thus cutting off the hot suppy, for your safety
Are you with me so far?
That is how it should work!!!
But if YOU reverse the connections, can you guess what happens,
It swings fully to the cold possition and continuse to let hot water pass,But it has shut off the cold!!!
Now go and switch the connections,In the loft if that is easyer

 

[bodger1]

Buck51 it's not that I wont take your advice that's why I'm on here and I'm open to it, but the hot and cold feeds are connected to the correct sides of the valve - the left as you look at it is hot (marked with HOT) and the right is cold.

The cold feed from the tank in the attic feeds the right hand side of the valve and the hot which comes up from the floor from the hot water tank feeds the left hand side (the one marked HOT).

Now if you're insisting I swap the feeds over I would have to insert additional piping to enable the cold and hot feed to get to the opposite sides of the valve - which shouldn't be necessary as the old shower valve took the feeds into the valve at the same location on the new valve, but then why would I want to connect the cold water feed from the tank in the loft to the side of the valve marked HOT?

Now you know why I started my query 'baffling'.

 

[diverdee]

does the valve have none return inserts fitted ? could be fitted wrongly.and shower could be wrongly labelled!!

 

[buck51]

OK.so lets ask this, Have you had the thermostatic cartridge out of the valve?
It would not be the first time one had been assembled wrong
Do you have instructions?
Is it posible to remove the cartridge and turn 180 degrees?

 

[bodger1]

Diverdee - The valve does have none returns fitted and the HOT label is actually moulded on the valve.

Buck51 - I've not had the thermostatic cartridge out of the valve. It'd just be my luck that I've got the only dodgy one made! I've got the manual it came with, but to be honest I'm not sure I want to start taking the valve apart. I'll give the company a call tomorrow to see if they can shed any light on it, if not I'll ask for an exchange. Either way I'll be ripping my new bathroom apart tomorrow. Still it's my own fault for committing a schoolboy error!!

Thanks for your help fellas. I'll drop a line on here tomorrow if I get an answer.

 

[wonderb0y]

Well on fitting a new shower you usually have to take off the temperature control handle to get to the thermostat and adjust it acordingly to your preferance, turning it with the handles fitted you are restricted on how far you can turn it, the manuals will show you how to do this.

Thats what i think Buck is on about by turning it 180 degrees