Bathroom fan: siting/legality?

[bri160356]

My son has recently moved house and his bathroom needs to be completely refurbished;...I have a question regarding the existing Vent-Axia extractor fan.

The fan is sited immediately above the toilet (about 30cm below ceiling height: see photo in the link) and vents through an external wall. This same external wall has a fully opening window.

https://i.postimg.cc/4dRxNx9F/Loz-bathroom-fan.jpg

The fan/switch is diagonally opposite the bath/shower and cannot be physically reached from the bath/shower etc.

The fan is solely operated by an isolating switch on the wall (just above the fan itself);...it’s very impractical because the fan has no ‘timer’ and the switch is very high up the wall (again: see photo).

We have no idea when this fan was actually installed,...the house was built in 2001.

Couple of questions, if I may:

Is this fan legal?,...given that the only switch is inside the bathroom (albeit well away from the bath/shower) and has no pull-cord to operate it?

The fan functions perfectly and (with costs in mind) we’d like to utilize it if possible, but given that the wall itself will be fully tiled what wiring options do we have that would make the on/off switching more practical?

Can the isolating switch be removed completely and replaced by a ceiling pull cord? (the attic space above the bathroom is fully accessible).

Can a ceiling pull cord be fitted in addition to the isolating switch?...that would be easier than removing the isolating switch completely,... I guess???.

As ever, all advice/suggestions will be gratefully received. Many thanks in advance.

P.S. sorry if the post is a bit long-winded but I’ve tried to get as much detail in there as necessary.

 

[EFLImpudence]

That switch is an isolator switch for working on the fan; it is not meant for functional on/off switching.

You could rewire the fan to come on with the light (and timer if it has one) or a pull switch anywhere you want.
Is it a loft above with easy access?



It would appear to have just been installed badly - or rather daftly.

 

[bri160356]

That switch is an isolator switch for working on the fan; it is not meant for functional on/off switching.

You could rewire the fan to come on with the light (and timer if it has one) or a pull switch anywhere you want.
Is it a loft above with easy access?



It would appear to have just been installed badly - or rather daftly.

Thanks for the reply,...yes, I agree,...the installation leaves a lot to be desired.

The loft above is fully accessible;...if a ceiling pull-switch is fitted can the isolator be left in position or is it best removed completely?

 

[EFLImpudence]

if a ceiling pull-switch is fitted can the isolator be left in position or is it best removed completely?

Yes, you can leave it there if you want.

 

[ericmark]

In theory no requirement to have the fan, however the LABC told us we had to have one as if the window was opened people in the bathroom could be viewed from outside.

However since it was not in theory required it was left to us how to switch it. There are guides to building regulations however the Part L has been modified and so has Part P and to be sure what is required is hard as they are only guides they are not the actual building regulations and the case law which goes with it.

So basic idea is you should be able to switch on the fan when required without having to also switch on lights, so although connecting to lights means it is often used, where a pneumatic push switch would likely never be pushed, the latter better complies with the regulations, and since we tend to turn off the isolator except when having a shower, having it switched by lights likely means used less.

But it is personal preference, yes double pole switch for lights means you can have both switched with lights and push button, but that is a lot of work if you end up like us having it switched off 95% of the time.

Where the bathroom draws replacement air from matters, in our case it was the hall, which is normally set to 18°C so with fan running bathroom also went to 18°C however had the bathroom been up stairs then landing at more like 20°C so would no have cooled the room down as much.

There is also flues to consider, we do have an open flue, but the gas fire connected to it is rarely used, and there are vents allowing air into the house, my father-in-law had a nearly fully sealed house, every vent blocked, and sealed doors with triple glazing so the tumble drier in kitchen could draw in fumes from the living room flue.

 

[bri160356]

That switch is an isolator switch for working on the fan; it is not meant for functional on/off switching.

You could rewire the fan to come on with the light (and timer if it has one) or a pull switch anywhere you want.
Is it a loft above with easy access?



It would appear to have just been installed badly - or rather daftly.

Thanks for that;...so can I take it that if a Single pole,1 way pull-cord switch was fitted to the ceiling (just adjacent to the isolator) then all would be in order with regard to regulations etc?

Just to re-iterate; the 3-pole mains isolator switch is approx 10cm below the ceiling and is not in a bathroom ‘zone’. It is diagonally opposite the bath/shower and is not physically reachable from the bath/shower/basin etc.

See photo.

https://i.postimg.cc/4dRxNx9F/Loz-bathroom-fan.jpg

P.S. we’d like to keep the fan totally separate from the bathroom light switch, but many thanks for the suggestion.

 

[EFLImpudence]

so can I take it that if a Single pole,1 way pull-cord switch was fitted to the ceiling (just adjacent to the isolator) then all would be in order with regard to regulations etc?

Yes, but near the door would be more convenient.

To save a lot of writing, first let us know if the isolator is actually using all three poles, AND if the fan is a timer model which also has all three connected to it.

 

[SimonH2]

As per above, it's not impossible that the fan has developed a fault such that instead of running when the light is on (plus some run-on), it runs all the time that it's powered. So it might already be connected to the lights, but not working correctly. So check how it's wired now before making any other plans for it.

 

[bri160356]

Yes, but near the door would be more convenient.

To save a lot of writing, first let us know if the isolator is actually using all three poles, AND if the fan is a timer model which also has all three connected to it.

Will do.

I’ll be going to my sons house later this morning (he lives a few miles away) so I’ll have a look at the wiring of both fan and isolator.

 

[bri160356]

As per above, it's not impossible that the fan has developed a fault such that instead of running when the light is on (plus some run-on), it runs all the time that it's powered. So it might already be connected to the lights, but not working correctly. So check how it's wired now before making any other plans for it.

That’s a good point;...it could explain the rather impractical situation at the moment. The original lighting has been replaced by LED down-lights,...quite recently by the look of them.

 

[bri160356]

Yes, but near the door would be more convenient.

To save a lot of writing, first let us know if the isolator is actually using all three poles, AND if the fan is a timer model which also has all three connected to it.

As per above, it's not impossible that the fan has developed a fault such that instead of running when the light is on (plus some run-on), it runs all the time that it's powered. So it might already be connected to the lights, but not working correctly. So check how it's wired now before making any other plans for it.

The fan has no timer circuitry (Vent-Axia model F100S3).

Both isolator and fan are wired with twin&earth red/black cable which is tapped into the lighting circuitry in the attic.

https://i.postimg.cc/gk66bjXh/Loz-isolator.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/FscggDxw/Loz-fan.jpg

The latest thinking is to retain the 3-pole fan isolator but replace the old fan with an identical sized new fan+timer.

I was rather hoping that the cabling would have provision for a core that could be used as a ‘switched-live’ but sadly not. However, it now means that the feed from the attic to the switch and thence the fan will need replacing with three-core-and-earth cable,.. ..which will be a bit of a work-up as the attic space is very confined due to the low pitch of the roof. It isn’t boarded up there and it’s a bit tighter than I envisaged.

We’ll fit a pull-cord switch at the side of the bathroom door.

 

[SimonH2]

First thing to check is that you can actually replace the cable and they've not just plastered it in We're in a sort of similar situation. The previous owner had a rewire and the fan is only supplied by a 2C+E from the lights - so I'd need to get into the attic and replace a length of that with a 3C+E to get a switched live from the light. But the cable between the switch (a pull-colrd in our case) and the fan is plastered in behind tiles and up the sloping ceiling so will be a right PITA to replace

 

[bri160356]

First thing to check is that you can actually replace the cable and they've not just plastered it in We're in a sort of similar situation. The previous owner had a rewire and the fan is only supplied by a 2C+E from the lights - so I'd need to get into the attic and replace a length of that with a 3C+E to get a switched live from the light. But the cable between the switch (a pull-colrd in our case) and the fan is plastered in behind tiles and up the sloping ceiling so will be a right PITA to replace

Good luck!,...Replacing the cable from the ceiling down to the switch and thence the fan shouldn’t be too much hassle for us as that entire bare wall will eventually be fully tiled as part of the whole bathroom renovation.

It’s actually getting into the attic and squeezing myself into the ‘thin end of the wedge’ that I find very difficult these days.

 

[SimonH2]

Ah yes, distant memories of when it wasn't a problem - but now the body has grown in girth and got somewhat less flexible Pity it'll be a few years before the granschildren will be old enough to help with that bit

 

[bri160356]

With regard to wiring-up the new fan with ‘timer’ is it acceptable to use insulating tape to colour-code the 3-core+earth cabling?...or must pvc sleeving be used?

i.e.

Brown wire= permanent live;...no additional tape or sleeving required, obviously.

Black wire=switched live;...Brown sleeve? or brown tape?

Grey wire=neutral;...Blue sleeve? or blue tape?

Earth: green/yellow sleeve,...which I have plenty of.

I have adequate coloured insulating tape but I have no brown or blue pvc sleeving;..so, do I need to buy any?

Thanks.