Bathroom renovation nightmare (plenty of photos). HELP!

[sgabello]

Hi everyone,

After very much planning, I've finally started the renovation of my bathroom. Unfortunately, I have serious concerns about the quality of the work carried out. I awarded the job to a plumber (but I've just found out that he's more a gas engineer) who was supposed to bring in other trades. The reality is that he is doing most of the job and I'm very concerned by the quality of the work carried out.

I must admit that this is not an easy project (I'm changing the layout and increasing the size of the room slightly), and I feel like he doesn't have the experience to carry out a full bathroom renovation like this.

A few examples:
Last night I found out that the join between a pipe fitting and the soil pipe wasn't fully bonded and hence leaking. Same thing with a water supply valve. Today they started to put up the plasterboard and after checking it tonight, I found that is not level.
The floor also need to be levelled, and apparently the whole plan is to use small plastic shims that will support 18mm chipboards (how can I check if they are moisture resistant)? Even with DitraMat or another layer of plywood, I feel like all the tile will start cracking in no time.

I think the work carried out is a little too messy and not very precise/clean. The guys are very nice and keep saying to relax and that everything is going to be ok. But I can't stop thinking that I'm in big troubles.

Right now I need some reassurance guys... If not, I have to find a solution quick.

Here are some photos (or you can check this link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/24bvep6xhco95dj/AACCQTiNU5FJebxgv7g-cuOHa?dl=0)

Please please please... tell me what you think.

 

[handyjack]

Run mate, run.

 

[sgabello]

Please... I really need some proper advice... Please.

 

[JohnD]

what does that flexible silver duct do?

 

[ree]

There are too many questionable aspects to your pics. It might be a case of stop now, and bring in a professional bathroom fitter.

You will probably have to take out much of whats been put in, and take the financial hit but you perhaps shouldn't go on with that amateurish business - its not even been thought out or layed out.

Anyway, the mods will transfer you to another forum for more, and hopefully, detailed advice & comment.

 

[sgabello]

There are too many questionable aspects to your pics. It might be a case of stop now, and bring in a professional bathroom fitter.

You will probably have to take out much of whats been put in, and take the financial hit but you perhaps shouldn't go on with that amateurish business - its not even been thought out or layed out.

Anyway, the mods will transfer you to another forum for more, and hopefully, detailed advice & comment.

I thought this was the right forum to post to.

May I ask you to give me some examples of what has been done particularly wrong? I just want to be able to speak to the plumber... I need to point out all the shoddy work to him.

 

[Dean744PiN5]

that wall hung wc frame is shocking, when it's on that toilet is going to need to be able to support the weight of a full grown person, therefore the base needs to be secured to the floor structure, also using a flexi connector in a concealed location is never a good idea.

heres what a professional install would look like

 

[foxhole]

The toilet mount looks weak, as Dean mentions, though mine came with a flexi connection as part of the design.

 

[bernardgreen]

and I feel like he doesn't have the experience to carry out a full bathroom renovation like this.

The "quality" of the work proves he doen't have the knowledge and skills to carry out this project.

As mentioned the toilet support is not fitted properly, one foot of the frame appears to be floating in mid air. The forces on the frames are vertical AND horizontal so all fixings need to be secured to rigid structures.

Press fit pipe joints unger the floor boards. You won't be able to contact this "plumber" when you start seeing damp patches on the ceiling below.

There are electric cables which appear to be in danger of crush damage

 

[sgabello]

To be fair, the toilet mount is going to be fixed: we are sliding a few small pieces of solid floorboards underneath, between the two joist and then add the timber between the floorboards and the timber stud. It was cut off in order to install the new soil pipe, but he's going to fix it. The flexi connection is only temporary for the old toilet. The new one will have a rigid fitting (supplied with the geberit frame).

What worries me is the rest of the work:
- all the pipes look like are not well laid out... I would be expect to be able to move a little and instead are forced into position.
- a couple of junctions are wet.
- the chipboards on top are likely to press everything down.
- the idea that half of the floor is going to sit on plastic spacers sends chills down my spine.

I must admit that the tradesman is a nice guy and never got fed up by my questions. But I feel he's just not very "clean" and "precise" on his work. I don't think it is intentional... maybe just a luck of hands on experience on projects of this size.

Should I stop him?

I tried to get in touch with some fitters on Checkatrade but the few that replied have no availability until Feb 2016.

Seriously... I don't know what to do...

 

[theprinceofdarkness]

That spacer idea is rubbish. If you are going to use spacers like that half black one, you must cover the whole area with spacers. What will happen is that the flooring will sag between the spacers and I suspect will break up as the body of the board sinks on to the joist, leaving a broken bit sitting higher on the spacer.
The whole job is horrible, did any one do proper plans before work started? That under floor sewer pipe, does it have enough fall on it?. Will you enjoy the sound of running water in the sitting room when the loo is flushed? Also the under floor duct for???? Does not seem to be a good idea, you seem to have a window, so why not vent via this outside wall?
Frank

 

[Newboy]

1) The wall on which the frame is mounted is unsound - there is no support to the studs as the floor plate has been cut out and, due to the soil pipe position, cannot be retrofitted adequately. The structure as it is cannot support the wall hung pan.
2) The proposed floor structure (packers and chipboard sheets) is not acceptable. The floor will flex under load. The sheets need to be fully supported.
3) The new stud wall looks too thin to enable sufficient sound proofing to be installed.
4) The notching to the joists need to be checked for location and depth.
5) The pipework doesn't appear to have any local isolation.
6) The new plasterboard looks to have inadequate support below the window (packed out with p/board offcuts?)
7) Where the green plasterboard will meet the'yet to be installed' plasterboard there should be a double stud to enable the additional sheet to be properly fixed in the corner.
8) The cabling needs to be protected. If the switch to the left of the pan (in the new stud wall) is live then it needs some temporary protection as you will have potentially exposed connections
9) The ply sheet (for mounting a vanity unit?) look to be screwed diagonally into the studs - it should have timber supports mounted inside the studs and be screwed to them.
10) The plasterboard around the window should run the the edge of the studs/reveal to give a clean edge to the reveal.
11) The studs in the wall (?) opposite the WC frame looks to be 90 degrees out of position.

 

[bernardgreen]

we are sliding a few small pieces of solid floorboards underneath, between the two joist and then add the timber between the floorboards and the timber stud.

That probably won't work..

Why did the manufacturers make that frame out of such substantial steel and did they provide that bracket for mounting to the floor. ?

Do you believe a few small pieces of "solid floor board" will take the strain. It is NOT only a weight pressing down but also a horizontal force that will try to slide the floor boards along the joists. It may pass a static load test with a person gently putting their full weight on the toilet. But the reality is people will sit down heavily on the seat and that kinetic energy could exert a force two or three times their weight onto the frame and its fixings. ( A steel ball can rest safely on a glass table but the same ball dropped onto the same table can shatter it due to the kinetic energy of the falling ball )

 

[sgabello]

That spacer idea is rubbish. If you are going to use spacers like that half black one, you must cover the whole area with spacers. What will happen is that the flooring will sag between the spacers and I suspect will break up as the body of the board sinks on to the joist, leaving a broken bit sitting higher on the spacer.
The whole job is horrible, did any one do proper plans before work started? That under floor sewer pipe, does it have enough fall on it?. Will you enjoy the sound of running water in the sitting room when the loo is flushed? Also the under floor duct for???? Does not seem to be a good idea, you seem to have a window, so why not vent via this outside wall?
Frank

Completely agree on the spacers... exactly what I thought.
For sewer pipe, that is the consequence of the change of layout. I guess another tradesman would have simply told me that it couldn't be done rather than accommodating my requests even if impractical.
The underfloor duct is the ventilation system from the flat below, not mine. So... ignore it.

1) The wall on which the frame is mounted is unsound - there is no support to the studs as the floor plate has been cut out and, due to the soil pipe position, cannot be retrofitted adequately. The structure as it is cannot support the wall hung pan.
2) The proposed floor structure (packers and chipboard sheets) is not acceptable. The floor will flex under load. The sheets need to be fully supported.
3) The new stud wall looks too thin to enable sufficient sound proofing to be installed.
4) The notching to the joists need to be checked for location and depth.
5) The pipework doesn't appear to have any local isolation.
6) The new plasterboard looks to have inadequate support below the window (packed out with p/board offcuts?)
7) Where the green plasterboard will meet the'yet to be installed' plasterboard there should be a double stud to enable the additional sheet to be properly fixed in the corner.
8) The cabling needs to be protected. If the switch to the left of the pan (in the new stud wall) is live then it needs some temporary protection as you will have potentially exposed connections
9) The ply sheet (for mounting a vanity unit?) look to be screwed diagonally into the studs - it should have timber supports mounted inside the studs and be screwed to them.
10) The plasterboard around the window should run the the edge of the studs/reveal to give a clean edge to the reveal.
11) The studs in the wall (?) opposite the WC frame looks to be 90 degrees out of position.

1) the top of frame is also fixed at the top to the stud wall, both sides. All together won't be enough?
2) Yep
3) The new stud walls are thinner because the plan was to enlarge the shower box.
4) What do you mean exactly?
5) Yep...
6) Yep...
7) Good point! When questioned, the answer was: "the other timber stud is close enough. The plasterboard won't move."
8) Yep...
9) Same thought I had.
10) Yep...
11) This was done on purpose... to enlarge the shower box.

That probably won't work..

View attachment 86776

Why did the manufacturers make that frame out of such substantial steel and did they provide that bracket for mounting to the floor. ?

Do you believe a few small pieces of "solid floor board" will take the strain. It is NOT only a weight pressing down but also a horizontal force that will try to slide the floor boards along the joists. It may pass a static load test with a person gently putting their full weight on the toilet. But the reality is people will sit down heavily on the seat and that kinetic energy could exert a force two or three times their weight onto the frame and its fixings. ( A steel ball can rest safely on a glass table but the same ball dropped onto the same table can shatter it due to the kinetic energy of the falling ball )

All very good points... to my questioning, the answer was that the frame is also fixed to the stud wall. (see the picture attached to newboy quote).



My question now is... should I point out all the problems and hope for the best? Or fire him and look for someone else?

 

[nortonj]

Why dont you suggest getting a joiner in to do the joinery.
Because the way he is suggesting to do the floor simply wont work there will be a lot of movement in boards and tiles will crack