Been some changes at the office ...

[SimonH2]

At work, we're in a shared office unit, and from time to time there's lecky work goes on.
Lastest is that what was a meeting room let out with the office it's next to is being let as a separate small office - so needed it's services splitting off. Each unit has a separate DNO supply, so there was some discussion as to options - I got involved as the centre manager "isn't very technical" and she asked me to interpret what she was being told.
So the suggestion was to fit a DB in the "new office" and run a submain up from the meter room - either taking a feed from the landlords supply and using a private meter so the landlord can bill the tenant, or getting a new DNO supply in so the tenant can pay their own bills (as per all the other units).

The sparky they've got in comes from half way across the country, so I can only assume they are cheap - our landlord doesn't spend money he doesn't have to
I already had some reservations about this sparky as a few weeks ago when he was replacing a DB in another office I was sort of angling to try and get some of the old breakers as spares - they are old "Bill" boards and the breakers are rather expensive now, I had to buy one a few years ago for the UPS and IIRC it was £50 The sparky seemed genuinely to believe that these boards "had" to be replaced as they are obsolete. I can only assume he was referring to the lack of RCD which as I understand it for our installation is only needed for the sockets - everything else is still compliant, all circuits are in metal trunking and the very old (the place was built around 1990) DBs are metal cased. For the sockets, I reckon they could be made compliant by putting a standalone RCD in the DIN rail enclosure above the DB which only holds one or two contactors.

For this job, I also got asked about cable routes from the meter room, but the guy didn't seem to want to accept the answer that there's a space down inside a wall - or more likely I suspect he didn't want the hassle. So the existing supply to the existing office has been split, a large 3 phase switch fuse installed (only one phase used) and the supply tee'd off to the new office where there's another 3 phase switch fuse (one phase used). I took a peek while the sparky wasn't around. And 2 new private meters.

But to top it off, today the new tenants were moving in, actually upsizing from another unit, and I got asked about reading the meter - specifically about the economy 7.
I think there may be arguments ahead. The units all have storage heating, with radio teleswitches down in the meter room - and a contactor in the DIN rail enclosure above the DB switching on the storage elements. But the private meters are single rate only. I can't see the landlord wanting to charge less than the peak rate, and I can't see the tenant wanting to pay more than the night rate for the heating.

 

[ericmark]

I would keep well out of the way. Seen it many times got what they asked for not what they wanted. Some times it's not the electrician, but his boss. I remember being told to install an panel, but when I got there found there was a large valve and big wheel to operate it behind where I was told to put panel. So I got hold of my boss who said fit it but don't bother to fit all the bolts as we will get paid extra to move it once the client realises there is an error. It seems they made their money on the extras and relied on making money on the extras to make the job as a whole pay.

Clearly had I told anyone to do with the client I would have been in big trouble so one just says nothing. So boards have to be replaced because his boss tells him replace the boards. He would not want to admit if they didn't need replacing as he would likely be made redundant or some other excuse found to let him go.

My son at one point worked for one of these maintenance firms doing PAT testing, and installation testing, he was actively looking for a new job from day one. There were set times he could never achieve if he did his job right, if he didn't do the job right the firm did not really care, they new electricians would have to cut corners with the time allowed, and if they were caught cutting corners they were sacked there were loads more electricians willing to do the job. At least loads more electricians willing to cut corners i.e. not very good electricians just out of training willing to work under silly conditions.

When the new tenant complains then the electric firm will make more money correcting the installation. If they can shift blame they will so just keep well clear.

 

[SimonH2]

I'm not sure this is one of those outfits, looks more like a "one man and his van" outfit. But I think I'll stock up on popcorn

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So I got hold of my boss who said fit it but don't bother to fit all the bolts as we will get paid extra to move it once the client realises there is an error. It seems they made their money on the extras and relied on making money on the extras to make the job as a whole pay.

Well of course the client should have been told, and his attitude was apalling.

But in general, there is a lot of truth in the saying, familiar to all project managers (including honest, trustworthy reputable ones working for honest, trustworthy reputable companies): "change control is where you make your profit".

 

[Adam_151]

So I got hold of my boss who said fit it but don't bother to fit all the bolts as we will get paid extra to move it once the client realises there is an error. It seems they made their money on the extras and relied on making money on the extras to make the job as a whole pay.

Well of course the client should have been told, and his attitude was apalling.

Yes, they should be told, but the job should proceed as planned unless a signed changed authorisation is given. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a site agent has said just bang it over there on that wall instead, we will pay for the extra work. At end of job having installed extra trunking, bends, and longer cables all knowledge has been deinned and it hasn't been paid for. So it goes in per the drawing unless formal instruction received to do otherwise. Even if its concealed cabling on a wall about to be plastered, sometimes requests are delayed thinking you'll just do it anyway as it will be a PITA later...... well it may well be a PITA later, but they are paying for the PITA and the making good afterwards!

 

[ericmark]

I am sure the client knew full well what was going on, but they would be unlikely to admit it as it would show their errors, client was nuclear electric. But of course it happens both directions as you pointed out, next job my firm was the main contractor and tables were turned. I remember we had to release panels for wiring, they were placed some where near where they would be required then finally sighted. One contractor jumped the gun, and terminated all the cables before final sighting and it needed moving one foot, they had to drop all tails, weight for it to be put in correct place then re-do it all which included pulling in some cables all over again.

I asked my boss do we really need to move it, he said I don't know, and if I don't move it and it fouls something then I am looking for a job instead of the other firms foreman so I'm playing safe. He said likely the cost of altering the computer generated drawing would cost more than moving the panel.

Now when I worked for Laing it was very different, they would tell the client, but GEC is still trading Laing went to the wall and is now Laing O'Rourke when it was bought I am told for £1. So clearly the GEC large steam turbines method was the better, at least for share holders.

 

[SimonH2]

In this case, it's a "business Centre" manager with no technical skills asking for "we need this unit on a separate supply with it's own meter". I'm staying out of it, but I might drop some hints to her so she is aware of the balls up before the bill gets due for payment.

Funny thing is, they normally use a local chap for electrical work - he's good and honest. I get the impression he's just too busy to take on the larger jobs like this.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Or maybe he has learnt to avoid having fools for clients...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, they should be told, but the job should proceed as planned unless a signed changed authorisation is given.

No - the job should not proceed at all until a signed authorisation is given to either proceed as planned, acknowledging the problem, or to approve the change.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a site agent has said just bang it over there on that wall instead, we will pay for the extra work.

No problem with that provided the problem/need for a change has been communicated in writing, and the site agent is authorised to make that decision and commits to it in writing.

At end of job having installed extra trunking, bends, and longer cables all knowledge has been deinned and it hasn't been paid for.

Well - if you have a weak project manager and eschew basic common sense about getting things formally recorded, that is the sort of thing which will happen.

So it goes in per the drawing unless formal instruction received to do otherwise.

Of course. My comment about the appalling attitude related to the people whom the client had engaged for their expertise becoming aware of a problem and cynically keeping quiet about it in order to boost their fees. That falls so far short of the behaviour required that it's arguably illegal in UK law.