Best way to remove this tap?

[OldKettle]

Hi,
I am in the process of changing some taps on an old basin (not sure how old, but the house is 1950s).

To make things a bit more difficult, the pipe and nuts are painted.

I have managed to loosen the union nut with a pair of grips, but the back nut won't budge, and my adjustable spanners are about a whisker too small to fit.

Should I get a basin wrench (adjustable or fixed), or should I remove the paint from the thread and just try with the grips?

I was loathed to remove too much paint initially, because it's probably old and lead based, but I suppose it's going to come off anyway, at least from the thread.

Should I take it off first, and what should I use?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated, because it's turning a 10 minute job into a 2 day one at the moment

 

[oldbuffer]

1. That looks like a lead washer under the backnut, so with you're thinking its all 1950's, there's a good chance the hole in the basin is square. If so I'd treat it as a two person job, one to hold the tap, the other to turn the nut. Otherwise there is a risk of splitting the basin.
2. Use an electric fan to blow the fumes towards an open window, then carefully use a blow torch to char as much paint off as possible. Remove the rest with a wire brush, wearing a face mask.
3. A crow's foot basin spanner, perhaps with some added leverage in the other jaws, should see it all come off.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

If you value the basin, I'd get a decent spanner that'll grip that nut properly. You run the risk of cracking the basin if spanner slips, or the tap has been fitted with putty or red lead. Paint shouldn't be an issue, it'll start to crumble and flake off once the nut is turning, although ideally wants to come off beforehand if you can. Ideally take the basin off the wall, but appreciate it's not always practical to do so.

 

[Bosswhite]

Will be a labour intensive job, can`t you just replace the hand basin.

I would try and use a dremel to cut away the nut a couple of cuts and you should be able to force the nut open .

 

[Hot&Cold]

An appropriately sized box spanner for back nuts (widely available) will easily remove the back nut after removing some of the over painted threads,

a 10 minute job

 

[Terrywookfit]

An appropriately sized box spanner for back nuts (widely available) will easily remove the back nut after removing some of the over painted threads,

Correct solution !!!

 

[OldKettle]

1. That looks like a lead washer under the backnut, so with you're thinking its all 1950's, there's a good chance the hole in the basin is square. If so I'd treat it as a two person job, one to hold the tap, the other to turn the nut. Otherwise there is a risk of splitting the basin.

Yep, it's definitely a lead washer. I'll get someone to hold the tap.

3. A crow's foot basin spanner, perhaps with some added leverage in the other jaws, should see it all come off.

This kind of thing?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/basin-wrench/13294

Every review of that kind of wrench, seems to complain that they often don't fit, so I 'd considered getting an adjustable one, but wasn't sure whether it would get a good enough grip.

There is a bit of room around the nut, so would a slightly bigger standard adjustable spanner do a good enough job?

If you value the basin, I'd get a decent spanner that'll grip that nut properly.

The basin is not in great condition, so I will eventually replace it, but just wanted to get the new taps on as a medium term solution.

An appropriately sized box spanner for back nuts (widely available) will easily remove the back nut after removing some of the over painted threads,

Is this the kind of thing?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenberger-monoblock-tap-spanner-set/40102

If so, the problem is that I can't move/rotate the incoming pipe, as it is just a fixed copper pipe, and so can't move it out of the way, to get the spanner up to the nut (if that makes sense).

Will be a labour intensive job, can`t you just replace the hand basin.

I would try and use a dremel to cut away the nut a couple of cuts and you should be able to force the nut open

I did wonder whether a dremel was an option, if I couldn't get the nut to move.

As for replacing the basin, I probably will replace it in the longer term.

I also need to remove a basin in a bedroom, and also replace a basin in another bathroom, so any tools or practice won't go to waste.

If I replaced the whole basin, would I just loosen the union nuts, unbolt the sink from the wall and then lift the whole lot out?

 

[oldbuffer]

The spanner you want is Screwfix 27337.
If replacing basin, do as final line in your post #7

 

[OldKettle]

The spanner you want is Screwfix 27337.

Thank you. So it's this one:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenberger-tap-backnut-spanner/27337

If I understand correctly, that slips over the thread and then up to the back nut.

I don't think I'll be able to use that, because I can't move the incoming pipe out of the way to get the spanner into position.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

As a minimum I'd be looking at using an adjustable or a decent set of water pump pliers. Worst case scenario, cut the supply pipes further down and remove them to assist in removing the taps. The pipes can either be re-joined or use a flexi tap connector. You may find the tails on the new taps are a different length anyway, so pipework will have to be adjusted, and if not now, when you fit a new basin.

If reusing the existing tap connectors replace the fibre washers, the existing ones will be useless now and highly unlikely to seal again.

 

[OldKettle]

Worst case scenario, cut the supply pipes further down and remove them to assist in removing the taps. The pipes can either be re-joined or use a flexi tap connector.

I think that this is what I might do, cut the pipes, use a box spanner to remove the back nuts, and then install a flexi tap connector (I wanted to include a mini-valve into the pipe anyway).

I need to check the sizes, but would something like this be OK?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-tap-connector-with-valve-15mm-x-x-300mm/3558g

Can I just use a basic pipe cutter, something like this?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenberger-minicut-pro-2-6-22mm-manual-copper-pipe-cutter/71782

 

[fixitflav]

Is this the kind of thing?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenberger-monoblock-tap-spanner-set/40102
The tap backnut spanner (27337) should be OK, but you don't have to go to Screwfix. The set of 3 monoblock tap spanners for £8.99, I got a set of 4 for about £5 from local ironmonger. I found the adjustable basin wrench (14631) to be useless when I tried it on an awkward small basin tap. The basin wrench (13294) worked OK. But that was for the nut on the tap connector (the one you loosened). I doubt if either would have been much use on the backnut. On mine I bought a long socket meant for diesel injectors. A bit overkill, but did the job.



If so, the problem is that I can't move/rotate the incoming pipe, as it is just a fixed copper pipe, and so can't move it out of the way, to get the spanner up to the nut (if that makes sense).

If you remove the other union nut (the one painted white) you can take the elbow right out, which will give access. If it's tight put an open-end spanner on the elbow to hold against yourself, otherwise you risk bending the short length of pipe between the elbow and the tap.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I think that this is what I might do, cut the pipes, use a box spanner to remove the back nuts, and then install a flexi tap connector (I wanted to include a mini-valve into the pipe anyway).

I need to check the sizes, but would something like this be OK?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-tap-connector-with-valve-15mm-x-x-300mm/3558g

Yes, but make sure the flexi isn't stressed, it wants to be a comfortable fit, with no kinks or tight bends in it. That pipe cutter will be ideal, I'd scrape the paint off with a Stanley knife or something prior to cutting the pipe. Stops cutter going off course, gunging up with paint flakes and will give you a better seal on the joint when attaching the flexi.

 

[OldKettle]

OK, so things haven't gone great today!

I tried to remove the nut as fixitflav suggested, and I also put a spanner against it, but too high above the elbow, and so I have managed to bend it exactly as he predicted (without shifting the nut at all).

Luckily I haven't split the pipe, and the water is now back on, with no leaks.

The reason I tried this, rather than cutting the pipe, is that pipe are tighter to the wall than I thought (clearance approx 15mm), and I don't think that I can get the pipe cutter around them.

Now that I've bent that section, I'm inclined to ditch it and go back to installing a tap connector.

As you can see from the picture the hot pipe goes straight into void, which I really don't want to touch for now, but I only need to replace the cold tap for now.

If I can't cut the cold pipe with the pipe cutter, would a less exact cut with a dremel or a hacksaw be sufficient with one of those compression fit tap connectors?

Also, if I cut the pipe and I need to temporarily seal it, are these the right thing to use?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/p923-4-stop-end-15mm-2-pack/65021

 

[Madrab]

Yes you can use a dremel/hacksaw but you need to file (deburr) the end of the pipe so there are no sharp edges.

Yes you can use those compression stop ends. Or push fit stop ends or blanks ... whatever you fancy