Boiler continuallyon

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Hertfordshire
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A few days ago we noticed the hot water was getting really hot. Then we noticed that despite turning the room stat down the radiators were belting out the heat regardless. Then we realised that neither the timer nor the room stat were having any effect. With the timer automatically or manually set to off and the room stat turned right down (it clicks as per normal) both the pump and the boiler were working. The only way to stop things was to switch off the electric power supply next to the timer/programmer.
We left voicemail messages with several Corgi "engineers" from last Thursday but no-one returned our calls till today. Mr George Sweeney of Welwyn Garden City punctually turned up this afternoon but without his Corgi ID card so I would not let him start. He assured me that he had 35 years experience and that he was Corgi registered. He had his little Corgi stickers but had lost his ID card. I could call Corgi if I wanted but he was actually an actor and had just returned from 5 weeks in Florida so I should not expect him to carry his Corgi card! Apparently he is a well-known actor and was in "The Sweeney" years ago as well as in "Citizen Smith". Anyone know him?? However, I became even more worried at the thought of an actor servicing my boiler and repairing my fault. So I did start to call Corgi. At which point he scuttled back to his van with the promise to return "in a week or so" once he had replaced his Corgi card.
It turns out that he is registered as a sole trader with Corgi but why can't these tradesman play by their own rules and just carry the card? He would have been £100 richer if he had! With the public constantly being badgered and frightened into demanding ID etc by the likes of "Rogue Traders" programmes on TV etc, why do they get shirty when someone just does as they are required to do and ask a total stranger for ID before letting them loose in their house?
Rant over!! Now can anyone suggest which part of my system is faulty? Mr G Sweeney suggested the room stat (Honeywell T6160) could be "dusty". Or the 2-port motorised valve (Honeywell V4043H) to the hot water cylinder could be shot as the manual lever showed resistance when he moved it to the manual open position. The other motorised valve to the rads has no similar resistance and just slides efffortlessly into position. The boiler itself is a 1988 vintage Baxi WM 38/3 RS.
Any suggestions please?
I have dusted out the room stat and the microswitch does not seem to shut off the boiler/pump even when operated by hand. So that we don't have to keep switching the power on and off manually too much, I have set the boiler stat dial to minimum and it is still overheating the rads and hot water by staying on with all controls set to off. At least it's not the other way round in this cold weather! I thought the timer/programmer controlled everything before the room stat etc came into play. Any suggestions would be appreciated while I try to get another local Corgi engineer or wait for George to get a new card.
PS he charges £48 (not sure if + or - VAT) to service the boiler. £45-ish to replace a motor valve and £40-odd for a room stat. Any idea how these rates compare?
All comments really appreciated.
Graham46
 
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jeeeez, are you jeffrey archer?

anyway....9 times out of ten its the mot valve.in your case the hw one ...but...ive taken a tumble on a roomstat.

pull an orange wire, and youll get your culprit. ....jeffers.

:p
 
Hi Jeffers/Wilhelm
Thanks for prompt reply
Unfortunately not JA. Wish I had his money though! I am a journo though and can't help spicing up a story with a bit of humour, sarcasm or just a good old consumer rant!
Unfortunately useless at heating problems though. Not quite sure what you mean by a "tumble" on the stat. Is that engineering lingo for you've misdiagnosed this problem previously as a stat or does it mean you think that is the problem? Sorry to be thick here.
And where do I pull this orange wire from please? And what will happen?
Cheers
Graham46
 
the motorised valve microswitch send the command for the boiler /pump to fire. they do this via the orange wire . which will be in the wiring centre.....

exactly....call some one in....

a tumble is a mistake, ie im so used to mot valves f£kking out, i assumed , in this case a 3 port valve, was f£kked. it wasnt.

and dont ask what F£kked is.

cos admin......will get the right a£se.
 
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Graham46.

sounds quite cheap your sweeney geezer.
By the way there is no need to be corgi registered to work on the heating "system"
It does sound like one of the zone valves is at fault as wilhelm said so mr sweeney could have sorted it for you after all. :confused:
 
Me JA? You 558 posts! That's equivalent to at least half a novel!
Anyway just removed the orange wire from the connector block in the wiring centre. Only removed the one from the HW mot valve (see I'm getting the lingo already!). I left the orange wire from the other CH mot valve and a brown wire going into same junction (from the pump cable) connected in the block.
Unfortunately nothing changed. Pump still came on and boiler fired despite timer off and stat at off too.
Does this mean the mot valve is OK?
Where is the power/signal to fire the boiler coming from?
Could it just be a shot microswith in the room stat? Any way of testing that? While waiting I did remove the middle yellow wire from the stat but that made no difference either.
What next?
Graham46
 
Hi Scatman
Agree he did sound reasonable for the service. But having had a look at the price of roomstats and mot valves (2 port I believe) he seemed dear for the stat (cost £12?) but cheap for the valve (cost £45ish?).
I know you don't have to be a Corgi just to do the electric bits but he had come to service the boiler and he had the front bottom cover off before I could even ask him for his card. So it was a gas job and he just rushed off in a bit of a huff when I did as he suggested and phoned Corgi.
Pity because they said he was registered and if he could just show me his Equity (Actors' Union) card or some other photo ID he would have been OK.
Thanks for your comments.
Graham46
 
youre quick.

well the idea is...your boiler/ pump is firing..... so you pull orange wire from whichever....whichever one stops the boiler /pump is the duff valve.

and dont say your f£king boiler is in your garage. please.
 
Wilhelm
I will pull both orange wires and leave the brown from the pump connected.
Sorry but the boiler is in the garage.
Don't go away. I'm not a complete DIY Muppet despite what the wife might say!
Graham46
 
excuse the french......

so your frost stat is working then.........so re-conect all that sh£ite @ wiring centre.

you probably need a pipestat..... do a search.......

:rolleyes: ;) :LOL:
 
Wilhelm
Bingo!! I think. Disconnected both orange wires and boiler did NOT fire at all. So reconnected the HW orange and left the CH valve orange disconnected and the boiler now reacts to the timer hot water controls but not to the heating room stat. So that means that the CH valve is shot - yes?. So much for Mr Sweeney's instant diagnosis about the valve with the resistance to the lever (the HW one) being suspect.
How do these manual levers work? The HW one feels like it's moving something when you shove it. The (now disconnected) one just moves like there is nothing connected to it. Or is this lever stuff all a red herring?
So I have to replace the bad valve yes? The Honeywell site says you can do this without getting wet. Any tips please or is it wait for a professional time?
Many thanks for your help so far. Brilliant! Hope I'm not keeping you out of bed. Presume you are a professional at this?
Graham46
 
Did you say Mr Sweeney had your Front Bottom off?
 
graham.....whatever fEEEEEeking orange wire puts boiler/pump on is the fEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEked valve. assuming youve got the programmer set to off .

if theres a little bump on the silver valve head, you can change without getting wet.......

:LOL:
 
Scatman
The valve is a Honeywell 4043H 22mm 2-port zone valve. And I think the site says you can with this one. There's something on the body about just replacing the head with part no xxxxx. Does this mean you can just replace the silver tinny box bit (that's technical jargon!) without disconnecting the brass pipe bit? If so start by unscrewing the only external cross-head screw I can see on the end panel?
And now I have disconnected the dodgy valve which is the CH one, how do I get any heat back in the rads? Do I have to reconnect the valve pro-tem and keep using the wall switch?
Graham46
 

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