Boiler Selection advice please

[Dan Vittori]

Hi All

Looking for some advice on selecting a new boiler for an average size 3-bed EoT house with a single bathroom and 7 radiators. The current CH system setup includes a 20+ years old Baxi Solo 2 40 PF (output 11.72 kW) regular boiler installed in the kitchen, storage water tank in first-floor cupboard, electric power shower in the bathroom and OV tank+header tank in the loft. The boiler has worked fine to date with a couple of PCB changes and a fan replacement needed in the last 10 years. I am now getting the house refurbished with new kitchen and bathroom hence the time is now right to upgrade the heating system at the same time.

I would have loved to keep the current system with just a new boiler but have decided to change the system to Combi Boiler and get rid of the tanks in the loft, hot water storage tank and electric shower. The main reason being it is a rental property and quite a travel from my current residence which means priority for me is to minimise the risk of things failing in future. The radiators were changed in the last 3 years so the only major risk with the new system would be the boiler failing which would be covered by a boiler emergency response contract.

I had set up my mind on Intergas (Xclusive or Eco RF) boiler based on the logic of minimum moving parts and unique HEX design but after reading some posts here today, I am not sure any more. The boiler may be great on its own but if the after-sale service is not good and spares may cost a fortune then I would prefer to a get a more recognised brand with cheap spares and engineers who can service/repair these.

So looking for some recommendations and advice on choosing make/model/capacity for the new Combi boiler. Hopefully will have a consensus on a couple of options quickly

Thanks
Dan

 

[JohnD]

what are the advantages of a combi boiler to you?

 

[muggles]

The Intergas Xclusive is an excellent choice and has a 12 year warranty when fitted with their system filter. I've been fitting Intergas boilers for the past 7 years and never had an issue with after sales service from them. Personally I'd be using it in system boiler mode and keeping the hot water cylinder as you've got one, get it set up for hot water priority for best system efficiency. You then have the backup of an immersion heater in the highly unlikely event that it does go wrong. If you're concerned about the reliability of external components you could always upgrade them at the same time to ensure maximum longevity

 

[Razor900]

Personally I would go for the Eco over the X range everytime

 

[ianmcd]

what ever boiler you go for, find an installer that you trust and get them to service the boiler every year and issue you with a landlords gas safety certificate, rather than use a boiler cover company, you will only have one call to make if you have any problems, rather than being piggy in the middle between manu, installer and boiler cover company

 

[Dan Vittori]

what are the advantages of a combi boiler to you?

The current setup is at least 22+ years old. I am thinking of 10 to 20 year horizon from now when it will all be too old and components could start failing without notice and can cause some damage. Had to replace all radiators some time ago as two of the old ones leaked in quick succession. The power shower itself has not lasted more than 2-3 years and needed a repair or replacement. A combi will remove some of these hassles and I will only need to worry about a new boiler, some newish radiators and few copper pipes. Considering the property is a significant travel for me to attend, my natural inclination is to minimise the risk of extra maintenance/repair tasks.

I have myself inherited a Potterton Performa 28i in my current house. Looks very old, is very noisy but still does the job. Had to get the PCB replaced last year (sourced easily from eBay). Pressure drops every few months needing a bit of top-up and that's it. Hot water in the bathroom is quick but takes some time to reach the kitchen tap (not my problem as such ). A friend has a 10 years old Vaillant Ecotec 831 in a similar rental property with only one issue to date involving PCB which was easy to source (again from eBay) to get it replaced.

Although I must admit this forum and the members have been extremely helpful in learning and addressing some of these maintenance challenges.

 

[Dan Vittori]

The Intergas Xclusive is an excellent choice and has a 12 year warranty when fitted with their system filter. I've been fitting Intergas boilers for the past 7 years and never had an issue with after-sales service from them. Personally I'd be using it in system boiler mode and keeping the hot water cylinder as you've got one, get it set up for hot water priority for best system efficiency. You then have the backup of an immersion heater in the highly unlikely event that it does go wrong. If you're concerned about the reliability of external components you could always upgrade them at the same time to ensure maximum longevity

I thought of the option of upgrading the external components like ball valves in the loft and keeping the current setup but have now discounted that option (as explained above).

I was looking forward to Intergas myself but then after reading the rumours on this forum around company's UK future, cut down to their staff, high spare costs and some recent poor customer feedback on TrustPilot, I have changed my mind to not use Intergas on this occasion. I might go for them when the time comes to change the Potterton in my own house.

 

[JohnD]

I was thinking that with a cylinder, you have the reserve of an electric immersion heater that can provide hot water on the days when the boiler is out of action. This is a great convenience to tenants.

If you have sufficient pressure and flow to run a hot bath or shower from a combi, you could do the same using a modern unvented cylinder (which runs at mains water pressure) and can deliver unsurpassed hot water. A shower pump is not required, nor is a water tank in the loft.

Just a point to consider.

 

[Dan Vittori]

what ever boiler you go for, find an installer that you trust and get them to service the boiler every year and issue you with a landlords gas safety certificate, rather than use a boiler cover company, you will only have one call to make if you have any problems, rather than being piggy in the middle between manu, installer and boiler cover company

Thanks for the advice which would ideal thing to do but unfortunately not practical for myself. After burning my fingers with a couple of builders even though hired through good recommendations, I have somehow managed to convince my local and trusted builder to take up the job which is a good distance journey. This means he will source the installer for the boiler/system I supply and the installer would most probably be not interested in the annual service arrangement that far off (I will try though).

My current boiler cover is with a small scale local company which I found through the Council's fair trader scheme. They do annual service, issue gas certificate and cover all breakdowns and spares. Their service has been good so far in terms of prompt attendance but bit poor in terms of trying to save costs by repairing failed parts first needing subsequent callouts. Following boiler replacement, I would possibly switch to another plan/supplier with low monthly fee but with additional fixed callout fee as the new boiler would reduce the risk of needing a callout in the short term.

 

[muggles]

You shouldn't need any kind of payment plan with a new boiler. It'll be covered by the warranty. Why pay twice for the same thing?

 

[Dan Vittori]

I was thinking that with a cylinder, you have the reserve of an electric immersion heater that can provide hot water on the days when the boiler is out of action. This is a great convenience to tenants.

If you have sufficient pressure and flow to run a hot bath or shower from a combi, you could do the same using a modern unvented cylinder (which runs at mains water pressure) and can deliver unsurpassed hot water. A shower pump is not required, nor is a water tank in the loft.

Just a point to consider.

Had a quick thought about unvented cylinder but discounted it due to additional cost and maintenance needs. I would have taken chance with the old setup and Intergas boilers if I could attend the property at short notice myself. Sincerely hoping that a decent quality Combi (not looking for the cheapest) should not fail for many years to come and on the odd occasion, if it fails then a boiler cover should be sufficient to bring it back to life in a reasonable timeframe (famous last words). Trying to strike a balance between tenant's and my convenience.

Hence my original request for a combi recommendation (excluding Intergas regrettably) for a single bathroom, 7 radiator average size EoT house. Maybe the least disliked make/model would do for me. I am also not sure if a 24-25 kW output would suffice or I should be looking at 27-32 kw range on the safe side.

 

[Dan Vittori]

You shouldn't need any kind of payment plan with a new boiler. It'll be covered by the warranty. Why pay twice for the same thing?

I would hope so. Once I have selected the boiler then based on the warranty conditions, response time etc. would need to decide to continue with a boiler cover or not. I may go for no cover or minimum cover initially and change depending on boiler performance. I have never used a warranty before so have a hunch that it may not work when the time comes. Also if their SLA on response time is in weeks then it is no good for the tenants.

I would still have to pay £80-£100 for annual service and certificate. The minimum cover cost with high excess is roughly £50 a year. I am currently paying £215 a year for all this including unlimited callouts and any spares. Doesn't feel too bad for peace of mind.

 

[Ethel H]

Personally I would go for the Eco over the X range everytime

@Razor900 @muggles Why is that? I understand that the pros of the X range are that they look more attractive with the touch panel, have better flow rates and modulate lower but what are the cons and does Intergas plan to address the issues? I hope there aren't reliability issues with the electronics or the design.

 

[Razor900]

The flow rates are certainly not better in fact they're worse in most cases.

They've been plagued with software issues, are much noisier than the older range and according to people who should know they are having more then their fair share of pump problems lately.

The big advantage they have over the old platform is the lower modulation. I had one of the first Xtremes in the country which admittedly hasn't given me any problems but it replaced a ten year old Intergas which I took out and fitted in another property for a charity install. Three years later and it still hasn't missed a beat.

I'm not saying the X range are terrible boilers but they are not as sorted as the old ones which are pretty much bulletproof.

 

[Bodd]

Get rid of problematic tanks I'm loft.
Fit standard or system boiler with unvented cylinder. Combined you will get less problems than you would with a combination boiler.
If you get rid of electric shower then you will have no back up hot water with a combi.
After 10 years you could be replacing a combi.