Brrrr...

[Roger465]

I moved into this house a couple of years ago, and got some heating/insulation work done under the terms of a local grant we’re fortunate enough to have here. Part of that concerned the double glazing, whereby any “blown” panels (ie with mist inside them etc) were replaced at no cost to me.

So I have no dodgy panels, and no leaks that I can feel with a moistened hand. However, my armchair is near the window, and I feel cold; when I move over to the sofa, I feel much warmer. I’m just testing with a little thermometer as I type, and it looks like it’s going to register something like 1½ degrees lower on the windowsill than on the sofa.

So. My question… I haven't got enough cash to replace all my double glazing (it’s a big bungalow with many windows), but it occurs to me that I spend most of my time in this living room, and maybe I could replace just these windows (and keep the door closed, obviously).

But is it worth it? If there are no draughts, and the panels are all OK, would replacing my 20-year-old mahogany-framed windows with something more modern really make a difference, do you think?

And, if I did, how do I tell good DG from bad?

Thanks

 

[footprints]

Windows no matter how well glazed will feel cold to the touch you in effect get a wall of cold air "falling" down in front of them just as the hot air from your radiator rises.
Heavy or lined curtains replacing the vertical blinds will make a surprising difference at night, don't waste your money on supposed energy efficient or triple glazed windows.
It is worth replacing old Aluminium frames with PVC but there is not a vast difference between timber and PVC.

 

[Roger465]

Windows no matter how well glazed will feel cold to the touch you in effect get a wall of cold air "falling" down in front of them just as the hot air from your radiator rises.
Heavy or lined curtains replacing the vertical blinds will make a surprising difference at night, don't waste your money on supposed energy efficient or triple glazed windows.
It is worth replacing old Aluminium frames with PVC but there is not a vast difference between timber and PVC.

Thanks, that's very useful. Interestingly, as women seem to be more sensitive to cold, I got the girlfriend to investigate, and she could feel a SLIGHT draft, and it seems to be seeping through between the frame and the brick wall, which I hadn't thought to check. It is pretty slight, but now that I know it's there, I can feel it.

But investigating outside, it seems to be well sealed round the edges

 

[Notch7]

The window in the pic is fixed.

If thats the one near your armchair, maybe fit secondary glazing.

Replacing the window will only make a minor gain, as footprints said the temperature of the inner glass is the cold you can feel and a new window would be the same.

 

[footprints]

But investigating outside, it seems to be well sealed round the edges

There will be air movement in the cavity too so some paintable (not silicone) mastic on the inside too will help.

 

[Roger465]

Thanks chaps, that's useful info

Think curtains are probably the answer!

 

[StephenStephen]

I'd be tempted to put in secondary glazing on magnetic strip.

 

[crank39]

Do a google search for 'window convection', me being in the window game this is one of those things you have to convince a customer of sometimes when they THINK they can feel a draught, yes theres no denying they can perhaps feel air movement but its due to covection not a draught, it takes some convincing but its a real thing, the other 2 I find are double glazed unit steaming up on the outside and condensation, 3 things a fitter has to convince a customer isn't a window problem

 

[Roger465]

Do a google search for 'window convection', me being in the window game this is one of those things you have to convince a customer of sometimes when they THINK they can feel a draught, yes theres no denying they can perhaps feel air movement but its due to covection not a draught, it takes some convincing but its a real thing, the other 2 I find are double glazed unit steaming up on the outside and condensation, 3 things a fitter has to convince a customer isn't a window problem

Wow - having now read up on it, I get it. Quite hard to believe otherwise

I reckon that's exactly what's happening here... all I've got to do now is figure out how to stop it giving me a cold neck

 

[Roger465]

I'd be tempted to put in secondary glazing on magnetic strip.

Thanks, I'll investigate...

 

[Roger465]

Well, interesting stuff about the convection issue. However… what I’ve just realised is that I get cold mostly when there's wind outside, which really should have been telling me something.

Right now, after a windy day, when I felt a litle chilly in here, it’s now dead calm outside, and I’ve had to turn the heat down 2 degrees. Earlier, there seemed to be a faint draft around the edge of the window frame – ie between the mahogany frame and the wall. So I’m going to have to think about that. Maybe it's air moving in the cavity, as somebody said.

Trouble is, thinking about things like sealant/secondary glazing etc, the problem is that this entire room is papered with embossed wallpaper, which goes right into the window recess, right up to the frame, and I don't want to do anything to damage it, or stick anything to it etc, as I might risk having to re-paper the entire room or something… and no, of course you can't get it any more...

 

[Roger465]

OK, further development... oddly, up to now I've never noticed the little ventilator at the top of the frame, and cold air is pouring through it, and down towards me!

Needless to say, it's shut - but I guess the 20-year-old seals have perished. I can also detect some icy air seeping through round the edges of the windows which can be opened (though much less than through the ventilator).

Now, I simply cannot afford to have my DG replaced - and the basic structure of the mahogany frames seems to be in good nick.

Can the seals/ventilators etc be replaced...?

 

[Gazman16]

If the windows have friction hinges (you may need to google a photo) they can ware and stop pulling in tight on the hinge side. So if there are drafts on the opposite side to the handles that could be your problem. 8 times out of 10 if they are not too far gone giving them a good clean and lube will sort the problem.
There will be a triangular shaped part of the hinge opposite the handle side, Get a good bit of Vaseline in there and open/close the window about 10 times. If that doesn't solve it you may need new hinges.

For the trickle vent they all leak air, Personally I would block them up (although technically they are needed for clean air, But you can open a window occasionally for that)

 

[JP_]

Is there space to put a radiator near that window? The air movement felt is probably just convection movement in the room, having another radiator might help reduce that movement by keeping the window area warmer.

 

[Roger465]

Get a good bit of Vaseline in there and open/close the window about 10 times.

I think the draft is on the handle side, rather than hinge...

I often see Vaseline mentioned on this forum… is there any reason for using it rather than, say, lithium grease, which I have a large tin of?

For the trickle vent they all leak air, Personally I would block them up (although technically they are needed for clean air, But you can open a window occasionally for that)

Oh, I think I have enough drafts in here to keep the air clean! Perhaps time for the silicone treatment…

Is there space to put a radiator near that window? The air movement felt is probably just convection movement in the room, having another radiator might help reduce that movement by keeping the window area warmer.

No, I can actually feel where the air is coming through. And I have a radiator there already, as it happens