Build over permission - public sewer

[sleeper341]

Hi,

I know this is probably a dumb question but I have planning permission for an extension to the rear of my property which will involve building over a minor public sewer. I understand that I need to get build over permission from Southern Water, but they are asking for £867.60 just to apply, which they could then turn down and stop me building leaving me massively out of pocket!

What would happen if I didn't get permission and just went ahead with the build?

Thanks

 

[Newboy]

In the worst case, if the sewer were to collapse either during or at any time after you had built over it without agreement then your extension would be demolished to repair the sewer

In my local area (Southern Water) policy is to refuse permission to build over if the sewer is >225mm diameter and/or <3m below surface

 

[sleeper341]

Thanks Newboy, I'm in Southern Waters area too, my sewer is less than 225 and less than 3m below the surface.

It's strange as the 'sewer' is right outside the back of my house, on the sewer plans from Southern Water it looks like a private sewer which I'm at the head end of (there's no one upstream from me) my waste pipe from my bathroom runs straight in to it and I have a manhole right under my kitchen window that I can open up and see the foul waste run out of the down pipe from the bathroom above and along the sewer, but they claim it is classed it as a public sewer as it doesn't connect to a bigger sewer in the street. Everything I read on line says that if you are at the head end then it is private which would mean I wouldn't need build over permission, but SW say different.

I just don't want to spend such a ludicrous sum of money for such a simple 'yes/no' answer. I don't get anything else for the money!

 

[Nige F]

Good old S.water I had a small issue with them re. rainwater off my house - First phonecall .Nono no . Loved it -was getting ready to call in @ their office and ask to see maps etc. pertinent to my house . Made 1 more call - rustling of papers and clicking of mouse @ their end - OH yes , you have no rainwater sewer near you ( I knew that ) . Shame , I was looking forward to a set to . Arse and elbow come to mind

 

[sleeper341]

Heres an image of the sewer map. It looks to me that I'm at the head end, I just can't bare to part with £867 for a pen pusher to sign off something!

Picture Title

• sleeper341
• 15 Jul 2013
• 1

 

[Newboy]

If my understanding is correct, from your description you don't have a public sewer - it only becomes public at the point where another property joins it. Why do you believe that you need SWs permission?

Personal view (assuming it's not a public sewer) is move it outside the footprint of your extension so that you don't have the need for internal inspection chambers and, if the worst ever happens, you don't have to dig up a sewer inside the house.

Just for the record, I have a client who house was extended (prior to their ownership) and had to destroy a bathroom and kitchen to relay an overbuilt sewer which was totally blocked and with no access to clear it. Expensive & very disruptive

 

[sleeper341]

That's what I thought Newboy, but building control and SW say it is a public sewer despite being at the head end. They have the same sewer map as me and they say that it is public. How do I argue this with them?

I cant really move it out of the footprint of the extension as there isn't really space to plus i'm adding a toilet and shower downstairs. I'll try and upload a pic of the plans so you can see.

 

[sleeper341]

The little rectangle outside the kitchen window is the manhole cover, sewer runs off diagonally to the bottom left. In order to keep the build cost down it has been proposed to building control that the manhole stays where it is but is replaced with a double skinned lockable sealed cover.

Untitled

• sleeper341
• 15 Jul 2013
• 1

 

[D_Hailsham]

According to Ofwat, the bit of sewer on your land is a Drain, and therefore your responsibility. It only becomes a public sewer when it enters the next door property.

Also see Transfer of Private Sewers

It could be that SW accepted responsibility for the complete sewer, including your part, when the estate was built. Ask to see a copy of the Agreement mentioned in the sewer plan.

 

[sleeper341]

Thanks Hailsham, I spoke with the 'Consumer Council for water' who have said email a complaint to Southern Water stating that I believe that it is private at my end and that I believe they are just trying to charge me needlessly.

This means they have to respond with a full reason as to why they believe it is a public sewer. I can then go back to the CCfW and they can challenge it if possible.

 

[sleeper341]

WOW!!! a call to SW complaints seems to work wonders!

I rang them and explained that I had spoken with OFWAT an The CCfW and that they had advised me to raise the complaint as above.

The customer service agent seemed a little panicky and said she would discuss it with her team leader and call me back. Within 10 mins I had the call back and she said that after further investigation it would appear that I don't need build over permission as the sewer is only 100mm and that the extension won't be covering more than 3 meters of it. They took my building control reference, the contact name of the senior BC surveyor and his direct dial number which I had and said they will call him directly and let him know that I do not need build over permission.

I just want it in writing now so they cannot wriggle out of it at a later date.

 

[Agile]

I am glad that we have been able to help you achieve your aims!

Using the complaints procedure is now very useful for organisations who can be referred ultimately to controlling bodies.

I had to use that method when a gas supplier would not provide a new meter UNLESS I also took electricity from them.

Their licence says that they must supply one fuel if requested. They insisted I took electricity as well but refused to put that in writing! I raised a complaint about the lack of the written statement and surprise, surprise, but the meter suddenly appeared!

Tony

 

[Nige F]

WOW!!! a call to SW complaints seems to work wonders!

.

What did I tell you