Builder "forgot" DPM, how bad is this?

[ho66]

Builder installed a new LVT flooring on the ground floor. To do this, he removed the old hardwood floor. Under the kitchen floor was some sort of very old damp proofing, which he removed as well. He then put DPM's at around half of the ground floor, but not the other half, claiming that there is no space for it. He then poured self-levelling compound on everything, on top of which he put the LVT flooring. As a result, I assume that parts of the ground floor now just don't have a DPM. Builder says it's not a big deal, there probably is some other old damp proofing under it anyway or it's not important. What's the right approach here? Does the whole job have to be re-done (kind of tricky because the kitchen is already on top of it) or should I just accept the situation for now and see in a year how it develops?
Thanks!

 

[johnny2007]

Kitchen is already in, so too late to do anything.
Who are these cowboys?

 

[ho66]

Yes, it's too late, but how bad is this? I haven't yet paid them in full and want to figure out what's fair. Most of the ground floor didn't seem to have DPM's before and it was fine, so I would expect the kitchen to be ok at least for some years?

The builder says that there was no space for a DPM in the kitchen because the kitchen floor was higher and we wanted to have everything at the same level. If they had put a DPM, the self-levelling compound would have been too thin. From a professional's point of view, how reasonable or ridiculous is this excuse?

 

[noseall]

Builder installed a new LVT flooring on the ground floor. To do this, he removed the old hardwood floor. Under the kitchen floor was some sort of very old damp proofing, which he removed as well. He then put DPM's at around half of the ground floor, but not the other half, claiming that there is no space for it. He then poured self-levelling compound on everything, on top of which he put the LVT flooring. As a result, I assume that parts of the ground floor now just don't have a DPM. Builder says it's not a big deal, there probably is some other old damp proofing under it anyway or it's not important. What's the right approach here? Does the whole job have to be re-done (kind of tricky because the kitchen is already on top of it) or should I just accept the situation for now and see in a year how it develops?
Thanks!

In what form did this new 'DPM' take?

 

[ho66]

A plastic sheet.

 

[noseall]

A plastic sheet.

He poured floor levelling compound directly onto a plastic sheet?

I'm a wee bit baffled...

 

[JohnD]

How old is the house?

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

The builder says that there was no space for a DPM in the kitchen because the kitchen floor was higher and we wanted to have everything at the same level.

Possibly the starting point was you asking for the impossible.

If you have old concrete floors with no DPM (as we have) then, if you want a modern perfectly dry floor you need to pay to remove and replace it, as we are only in selected rooms.

It's way too late to start worrying about it now, you didn't have this thought at the outset or during the work so paying up is your only option. It sounds like you're more interested in not paying than you are in whether the work is OK or not.

 

[ho66]

Thanks for the replies! Answers:

> He poured floor levelling compound directly onto a plastic sheet?

Yes. I didn't know how it's done, I trusted that he knows how to do the job. He claimed to have lots of experience and showed pictures etc.

> How old is the house?

Around 90 years. Is it normal that floors aren't damp proofed in houses of the 1930s?

> Possibly the starting point was you asking for the impossible.

That may very well be, I'm a customer and not an expert in the flooring business, but then I'd expect him to tell me that it's impossible, right? He just said "sure, no problem".

> If you have old concrete floors with no DPM (as we have) then, if you want a modern perfectly dry floor you need to pay to remove and replace it, as we are only in selected rooms.

Thanks, that's good to know.

> It's way too late to start worrying about it now, you didn't have this thought at the outset or during the work so paying up is your only option. It sounds like you're more interested in not paying than you are in whether the work is OK or not.

I think I explained quite clearly what I want and I believed that he's a reputable builder who knows what he's doing. It's definitely possible that I was asking for the impossible or that what I was asking for would have been a lot of work, but then I would have expected him to tell me exactly this. Instead, he just did something and the result isn't pretty. The floor itself is better than before, but it's ironically less level than it was, and he charges me 4000 for levelling alone (this is an extra charge in addition to the actual floor laying which I already paid). So, yes, of course I'm not keen on paying him the additional charge for levelling when it's not level. But it's not only that, since the floor is less level than it was before, it wouldn't be unreasonable to do the whole thing again. If at least the damp proofing is ok, then maybe it can stay as it is for now, but if that's also an issue, then there isn't much point in keeping it as it is, right? That's why I am asking how bad it is to not have a DPM. But since you're saying that old concrete floors in old houses just don't have DPM's, it might not be so bad after all?

 

[JohnD]

old concrete floors in old houses

Ah, 90 years. Probably had no damp protection. The concrete was probably not very dense. Slight damp would have escaped by evaporation, especially through carpets. You sometimes find "sweat" under impervious coatings like lino or vinyl. Kitchen and bathroom floors are more often damp due to leaks.

Did the old floor have a black, tarry coating?

You can put plastic DPM under a new concrete floor, but if you mean a levelling screed it is usually too thin.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

You didn't shout "stop" after the floor was laid and before the kitchen was fitted though. You've become fussy now it's too late to fix anything.

I'm guessing you're not going to pay to remove the kitchen, fix the floor then refit it. So you don't have a loss to reclaim from the contractor.

 

[ho66]

Ah, 90 years. Probably had no damp protection. The concrete was probably not very dense. Slight damp would have escaped by evaporation, especially through carpets. You sometimes find "sweat" under impervious coatings like lino or vinyl. Kitchen and bathroom floors are more often damp due to leaks.

Did the old floor have a black, tarry coating?

You can put plastic DPM under a new concrete floor, but if you mean a levelling screed it is usually too thin.

Thanks! Yes, the kitchen had the black, tarry coating. This was against damp, right? When the subcontractors removed this stuff, we asked them what it is that they're removing, they didn't know but said it had to go to bring the kitchen to a similar level as the rest. This made sense but, in hindsight, it's weird that they didn't know what it even was. Unfortunately, the kitchen is part of the area where they didn't put a new DPM so the kitchen damp proofing is worse than it was before. Not so great but I hope it can at least be ok for some years, I guess I'll see. The rest of the ground floor house had no black coating. In a way this makes me feel better because it means we've survived without damp proofing before.

 

[ho66]

I'm guessing you're not going to pay to remove the kitchen, fix the floor then refit it. So you don't have a loss to reclaim from the contractor.

This is what we're considering, would it be crazy to remove the kitchen and fix the issue? The end result just isn't good. I know that this will be a huge cost which I will have to pay myself, I won't reclaim anything from the builder, it won't be possible to get anything from the cowboy without going through a very long court process and I have better things to do.
But fixing the kitchen is a possibility because, if we live there for many years, it's not good if we're already unhappy with it directly after the refurbishment, right?

 

[Koolpc]

Builder was not prepared to dig up some of the floor to lay a new DPM.

Hope the floor is not a floating one with kitchen units directly on top?

 

[ho66]

Builder was not prepared to dig up some of the floor to lay a new DPM.

Hope the floor is not a floating one with kitchen units directly on top?

It is. What should I expect to happen?