building a cold room/ larder

[lilleville]

Hi, does anyone know how to create a natural cold room? i'm building an extension and I want to have a walk in larder / cold room off the utility room. How would you do it, making sure the rest of the house is not affected and the room remains cold all year round? It's on the SE side of the house, so it gets the morning sun and will have a sloping roof above, cloakroom on the other side of the back wall, stairwell on the internal wall and utility room on the wall where the door is. I was told about trickle vents, please could you explain about these, he didn't go into much detail. Also the external wall will be close up but not touching the neighbours garage, so won't get loads of sun on it. Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

[mointainwalker]

Technically I suppose, putting no insulation under the floor would be the first thing. Since the earth below would get no sun that should keep that at 10 C or below (?) Then as much concrete as possible on top to act as a cold-sink ( reverse of heat-sink)

Don't know if the BCO would accept that or not.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Might be worth a ringo http://www.vivaten.com.au/ozcool/index.html

 

[lilleville]

Thank you, but as far as I can tell the Ozcool is a refridgerated unit which costs to run to cool the space, so you are building an insulated house to protect you from the cold outside and then paying to keep it cool, defeating the object of creating a space that is naturally cool and isn't heated along with the rest of the house. I'm after the natural way, so will speak to Building Control to see what they say regarding BRegs.

I came up with my own solution to insulate the space above (creating a flat ceiling below the sloping roof), insulated walls, trickle vents, solid concrete slab for the floor, insulated walls and either a fire door or external double glazed door. What do you think?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Do you want to end up with a room that provides a consistent temp throughout the year or just cooler in the winter? As you say building control is the way to go. When you speak to them, ask to speak to the inspector for your area and develop a rapport with him or her now.

 

[lilleville]

A room that acts as an old larder used to, cool all year, however I guess not as cool in the summer, just for the fact it would be blimmin' freezing in the winter! The main thing is not to be wasting money heating it and then cooling it again which seems like such a waste of energy and money! I will of course have a fridge freezer aswell, its really just somewhere to keep the veg and stuff where it'll keep for longer. I'll run it by the BCO.

Thanks for your helpful comments.

 

[stuart45]

Iv'e built a larder on the end of our kitchen and it stays cool all year. It's only got a small window and gets little sunlight. It's got a brick floor and thatched roof, and it's 6 inches lower than the kitchen. It's also got a 9x9 air brick in the wall.

 

[lilleville]

Fantastic, thank you! This is all helpful. How do you keep it cooler than the kitchen? What materials did you use in the wall between it and the kitchen? And is it on the North facing wall? Mine will be SE facing sandwiched between the utility and cloakroom

 

[noseall]

Keep it dark, well insulated and the air moving within.

 

[stuart45]

Here's a few pics of mine.
View media item 20321 View media item 20322 View media item 20323 [/img]
The exterior stable door was where the arch is now. The larder was an asbestos outhouse. I knocked it down but left the thatched roof in place, and rebuilt it with cavity blockwork. The floor is concrete with brick on top and no insulation. It has little solar gain and plenty of ventilation. Being lower than the kitchen means the colder air moves in to it.

 

[lilleville]

Wow, that's great what you've done there! What a lovely project that must have been! Have you completed the whole building work now? So back to the cold room, if I put trickle vents in do I put 1 high and 1 low on the wall?

 

[stuart45]

The old larders usually had air bricks at high and low levels.
I actually built this as an extension to the kitchen with some materials left over from some jobs and didn't intend it as a cold room, but it just worked out that way. Nosealls post says it all.

 

[lilleville]

Great. Thanks.

 

[TicklyT]

Where possible, larders were on the north side of buildings to keep direct sunlight out.

They were well ventilated, often with 'windows' of perforated zinc in place of the glass for ventilation, whilst keeping most insects and other pests out. Louvred panels or shutters outside kept the worst of the weather out.

Floor levels were often significantly lower than other rooms, at or below ground level, taking advantage of the mass of the earth to stabilise the temperature.

To make the best of it, and to keep the building inspector happy, the room would probably have to be isolated from the rest of the house by similar or better insulation levels used for external walls applied to the walls, ceiling and the door, making the space 'outside' the house as far as any thermal conduction is concerned.