A builder has suggested a "plain English domestic contract for minor building works" is suitable for our extension build. As a novice it appears to be open ended to the builders advantage regarding additional works and costs that may arise. My concerns are he may try to " bump up" the price as the work progresses. Any thoughts?
Building contract
- Thread starter SteveP5B
- Start date
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Possibly? How detailed is the drawing and his wording of the quote?
The drawings are to planning and building regs spec and reasonably detailed and informative. Two areas of my concern are the type of steel beam that will span a 4 Meter opening and the depth of foundation .
The architect suggests a box beam 200x 100 will be sufficient the builder suggests an RSJ at additional cost of £3000 including his engineers report. It has to support the existing roof and a new pitched roof (ie. valley)
We have very sandy soil on heathland , if footing need to go deeper or pilings are required there would be an additional cost but no mention of how much.
These two points make me nervous of signing this contract. Also there is no detailed quote only to build as per plan and a price.
The architect suggests a box beam 200x 100 will be sufficient the builder suggests an RSJ at additional cost of £3000 including his engineers report. It has to support the existing roof and a new pitched roof (ie. valley)
We have very sandy soil on heathland , if footing need to go deeper or pilings are required there would be an additional cost but no mention of how much.
These two points make me nervous of signing this contract. Also there is no detailed quote only to build as per plan and a price.
Why does it appear to be too the builder's advantage?
There are almost always extras with any build, and you both need to know how these are to be quantified and paid.
Some of these extras will be from unknowns, some from your requests, some from statutory inspections, and some from architects mistakes. The idea is to plan, specify and design thoroughly to minimise all potential extras.
You really need a detailed design and specification, for the builder to quote against. Any deviation to that adds potential cost increase or reduction.
Foundation work is always an unknown. The only way to know is to pay for an engineer's report of the ground before work starts. This will tell you what foundations will be suitable. Then if you need piles, you can get firm quotes beforehand.
Above all, the skill and quality of your architect will determine how much you end up paying when the builder comes across poor design.
There are almost always extras with any build, and you both need to know how these are to be quantified and paid.
Some of these extras will be from unknowns, some from your requests, some from statutory inspections, and some from architects mistakes. The idea is to plan, specify and design thoroughly to minimise all potential extras.
You really need a detailed design and specification, for the builder to quote against. Any deviation to that adds potential cost increase or reduction.
Foundation work is always an unknown. The only way to know is to pay for an engineer's report of the ground before work starts. This will tell you what foundations will be suitable. Then if you need piles, you can get firm quotes beforehand.
Above all, the skill and quality of your architect will determine how much you end up paying when the builder comes across poor design.
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Why does it appear to be too the builder's advantage?
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Once under contract the builder may decide to price any additional work at an exorbitant cost, somewhat difficult to negotiate for me once work has begun, and to quote £3k for a steel beam is I consider extortionate as an example.
If an architect makes a mistake then why should they not be held responsible, they are supposed to be professional people after all, this I'm sure this is the reason we pay and praise them highly.
To my understanding a professional working in this industry should have experience and be able to quantify roughly a cost of digging deeper foundations or pilling. To be exact I agree would need an inspection.
What I am looking for is a fixed price contract that will not cost me further expense, however if in my case additional work for foundations is required as an example, then why can a builder not quote for this work before hand, so we both know where we stand before work commences to avoid unnecessary negotiating that may end in conflict. As an example you know the cost of servicing you car and would not like to be asked for an additional amount as work progressed.
Read more: //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/building-contract.456150/#ixzz43wQdlJC9
Once under contract the builder may decide to price any additional work at an exorbitant cost, somewhat difficult to negotiate for me once work has begun, and to quote £3k for a steel beam is I consider extortionate as an example.
If an architect makes a mistake then why should they not be held responsible, they are supposed to be professional people after all, this I'm sure this is the reason we pay and praise them highly.
To my understanding a professional working in this industry should have experience and be able to quantify roughly a cost of digging deeper foundations or pilling. To be exact I agree would need an inspection.
What I am looking for is a fixed price contract that will not cost me further expense, however if in my case additional work for foundations is required as an example, then why can a builder not quote for this work before hand, so we both know where we stand before work commences to avoid unnecessary negotiating that may end in conflict. As an example you know the cost of servicing you car and would not like to be asked for an additional amount as work progressed.
And if they find an electronic sensor warning, but they can't narrow it down to the part, the sensor, the wiring or the main control unit, then you will pay for the diagnostic time and parts. The garage won't give you a fixed quote beforehand because they don't know what the work involves or parts needed.
It's up to you to test the ground and have foundations designed. If you don't, then you are letting the builder guess. If it's a type of soil that baulks more than another and requires more skips to dispose of it, or shoring to hold the trench up, or heave protection for clay, then that's unknown and you need to pay for it.
No builder is going to provide different quotes for different scenarios. Why should he waste his time working out for things that won't occur.
This is industry standard. That's the way it is.
If you want a fixed quote, then you get a high quote as the builder allows for everything. Then you can't moan when the builder does not have to do extensive work, finishes early but you pay him the quoted amount.
And if they find an electronic sensor warning, but they can't narrow it down to the part, the sensor, the wiring or the main control unit, then you will pay for the diagnostic time and parts. The garage won't give you a fixed quote beforehand because they don't know what the work involves or parts needed.
Read more: //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/building-contract.456150/#ixzz43wj0P7mC
I actually work in this industry and you are completely incorrect, you are mixing different scenarios
Read more: //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/building-contract.456150/#ixzz43wj0P7mC
I actually work in this industry and you are completely incorrect, you are mixing different scenarios
N
Newboy
1) You won't get a fixed price contract that is fair to you - the only way a builder could do this is to assume the worst possible scenario and quote on that basis. I assume you wouldn't expect a refund if it turned out that some of the works weren't needed?
2) My vehicle was serviced last week and I got a call mid-morning to advise some additional works required - so the total cost of the service was higher
than expected.
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Do they do they know how to quote in your industry? Quote posts that is.
If you are referring in the car industry, then that is your problem. That is why you can't see how construction contracts work.
I can see why a builder would need a contract with such a client.
it was you first compared building work to car servicing
and ive never ever had a quote from mechanic, its always an estimate.
I can count on one hand whereby the estimate the mechanic gave actually gave tallied up with the final bill.
Do mechanics factor in bad weather. We have lost £££'s due to poor Winter weather. Ho hum.
Do mechanics factor in bad weather. We have lost £££'s due to poor Winter weather. Ho hum.
Why do you not use fixed price servicing?
If additional work is required you have the option to not do any and drive the vehicle elsewhere .
Anyhow this is getting away from the point . It appears I won't get a fixed price. Thank you all for your input.
If additional work is required you have the option to not do any and drive the vehicle elsewhere .
Anyhow this is getting away from the point . It appears I won't get a fixed price. Thank you all for your input.
N
Newboy
Your analogy seems to cover your situation.
If there is extra work required on your build then you have the choice to accept it or get other quotes to cover the specific extra.
As an aside, and this is meant as a helpful comment, the way you are approaching your project is likely to mean that any decent builder will get the vibe that your project is the one to walk away from.
Most of us who undertake works with the public understand that you want value for money & don't have infinite resources and will work with you as the project progresses to keep costs under control. If you want to cover all the bases then before you start asking builders to quote for your work then you will need to commission surveys to get definitive reports that your architect can design from and that your builder(s) can quote on.
Yeah, and don't forget to invest in a crystal ball.
if you ask a builder to quote a fixed price hes going to factor in every eventuality that might possibly happen, the quote would be enormous
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